2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
proteus
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by proteus » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:14 am

Bill wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:52 pm
Let see how the Honda pu performs in the Redbull because Mclaren fans will never admit that their beloved team is subpar if they don't perform it must be someone problem. Honda had a decent pu for the whole of 2016 and second half of 2017 , so half the time for the duration of Mclaren relationship. Mclaren lost a lot of staff to Mercedes that's source of their problem
Honda engine was decent, but thirsty, which meaned it was not competitive in long runs. Safety cars were the salvation in those situations. Launch control was superb if not the best and packaging was good. But i strongly disagree Honda is now better than Renault. We will see if Redbull gets more wins in the next season, then they did with Renault.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

proteus
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by proteus » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:25 am

Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:19 am
Bill wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:20 am
Most people get this important fact wrong the engine regulation came about in 2007 that were the likes of merc started working on their pu the engine were supposed to be raced in 2011 but Ferrari and Renault said the were not ready so they were deferred to 2014 . So Honda is doing well if you consider that others have a 5 year head start they are already ahead of Renault and only a behind tenth to merc in quali
"Only a tenth to merc in quali"
That stung me too.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

muramasa
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by muramasa » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:20 pm

proteus wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:14 am
Bill wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:52 pm
Let see how the Honda pu performs in the Redbull because Mclaren fans will never admit that their beloved team is subpar if they don't perform it must be someone problem. Honda had a decent pu for the whole of 2016 and second half of 2017 , so half the time for the duration of Mclaren relationship. Mclaren lost a lot of staff to Mercedes that's source of their problem
Honda engine was decent, but thirsty, which meaned it was not competitive in long runs. Safety cars were the salvation in those situations. Launch control was superb if not the best and packaging was good. But i strongly disagree Honda is now better than Renault. We will see if Redbull gets more wins in the next season, then they did with Renault.
Being behind in power automatically means thirstier under current PU reg in the first place. Whether or how much you need to save fuel depends also on positioning, strategy and track config and weather. In 2016 Canada Rosberg suffered from severe fuel saving because he was in battles throughout the race, Raikkonen suffered from severe fuel saving issue in number of races across the years, in Sochi 2016 Alonso had to save fuel a lot while Button didnt need to at all because the former was running alone throughout the race while the latter was always running in tow behind slower cars, etc etc, you can just search by terms like "driver's name fuel saving" and you will see. And depending on strategy, track config and weather, they all often carry less fuel intentionally at tracks with high probability of safety car, when weather forecast says high probability of rain during race, also quali positioning and so on, because lighter the fuel the better for tyre and lap time, but sometimes they get it wrong forcing them to save more fuel than normal and others.

Regarding where Honda is now, I really dont see the reason why some have to decide which one is better, why not just settle with that the two are more or less the same with one is better in some aspects and vice versa, with clear margin to the top 2. Also whether Red Bull will get more or less wins next year compared to this year does not prove anything about PU pecking order for 2018 nor 2019 because field order will change. You have to swap RBR's engine to Honda while all the other variables and factors stay exactly the same in order to compare which PU is better, which is absurd. Some people brandish points, WCC standing and PU count as bible but you always have to see and analyze the contents, McLaren upped WCC from 9th to 6th but they dropped pecking order, their car (overall package) got worse, McLaren Renault is 6th and STR Honda is 9th but STR13-RA618H is better than MCL33-R.E.18, Honda used as many PUs as last year but they improved reliability (not saying they got it right, but improved reliability), etc etc.

hollus
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by hollus » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:57 pm

Several posts dealing almost exclusively with Honda, Ferrari and Mercedes engines, and dealing with other users and their opinions about Honda have been removed, too far off topic. Surely other threads would have been better suited for them.
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Ground Effect » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:37 pm

Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:57 pm

Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:37 pm
Interesting news,

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... n/4315101/
It'd be interesting to see where the Renault PU is next year. The 2018 version was mostly focused on reliability and apparently this new engine concept is proving powerful. Still, I'll believe it when I see it.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Ground Effect » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:10 pm

M840TR wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:57 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:37 pm
Interesting news,

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... n/4315101/
It'd be interesting to see where the Renault PU is next year. The 2018 version was mostly focused on reliability and apparently this new engine concept is proving powerful. Still, I'll believe it when I see it.
Yep, that's the best approach, the questions will be answered in Barcelona and to a greater extent, Melbourne.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:57 am

M840TR wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:28 pm
The problem was not the deal. It was excellent on paper. Hundreds of millions in funding with free engines? Deal of a lifetime! It was more the poor execution that got them. Honda didn't even have two years to build the most complex engines in the history of F1. Add that to the fact that they'd been out of the game for years and had to focus on building their facilities and hiring the right people. They should've played it safe and use a cash-strapped team like Caterham as a mule for a few years (like Toro Rosso) while running the Merc engine as a benchmark. I'm sure Honda would've complied with supplying them free engines for a quid pro quo.
Their shortsightedness cost them so much, even their jobs.
The only thing I would add to this is that they should never have joined that first year. They got locked in, the regulations made it impossible to correct fundamental flaws in their design. It wasted 2 more years. Ultimately led to the disastrous season of 2017, where they were finally allowed to completely revamped the PU from head to toe. They would have been better off running a mule at Suzuka the first 2 years.

Chicane
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Chicane » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:25 am

Some new Quotes from Zak

"You don't quite know what the competition is going to do, there's a decent amount of new development with the aero [rules] which hopefully gives us a chance and a bit of a reset because we need to get it right this time. So we're just hoping to be much more competitive."

"I think everyone's excited to have two new drivers," said Brown. "There will be some excitement on the grid, how's our car, we've got two new drivers and some new partners on the car."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12479 ... -f1-season
Quickshifter

cyclon
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by cyclon » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:40 pm

diffuser wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:57 am
M840TR wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:28 pm
The problem was not the deal. It was excellent on paper. Hundreds of millions in funding with free engines? Deal of a lifetime! It was more the poor execution that got them. Honda didn't even have two years to build the most complex engines in the history of F1. Add that to the fact that they'd been out of the game for years and had to focus on building their facilities and hiring the right people. They should've played it safe and use a cash-strapped team like Caterham as a mule for a few years (like Toro Rosso) while running the Merc engine as a benchmark. I'm sure Honda would've complied with supplying them free engines for a quid pro quo.
Their shortsightedness cost them so much, even their jobs.
The only thing I would add to this is that they should never have joined that first year. They got locked in, the regulations made it impossible to correct fundamental flaws in their design. It wasted 2 more years. Ultimately led to the disastrous season of 2017, where they were finally allowed to completely revamped the PU from head to toe. They would have been better off running a mule at Suzuka the first 2 years.
It's been more than once that Honda denied the use of a mule.
In any case huge respect to Honda.

Now we need consistency with Renault engine and i hear that it will deliver.
I loved the iconic McLaren-Honda
But most of all i love McLaren . After all first contact made with M23 that had a Ford Cosworth PU

Jolle
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Jolle » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:46 pm

M840TR wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:57 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:37 pm
Interesting news,

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... n/4315101/
It'd be interesting to see where the Renault PU is next year. The 2018 version was mostly focused on reliability and apparently this new engine concept is proving powerful. Still, I'll believe it when I see it.
Any predictions and good news should be taken with a grain of salt. McLaren needs good news and most of all hope to sell to sponsors. This is the verbal equivalent of running light in testing. After five years of promises, first seeing then believing.

cyclon
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Location: Athens,Greece

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by cyclon » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:52 pm

Jolle wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:46 pm
M840TR wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:57 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:37 pm
Interesting news,

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... n/4315101/
It'd be interesting to see where the Renault PU is next year. The 2018 version was mostly focused on reliability and apparently this new engine concept is proving powerful. Still, I'll believe it when I see it.
Any predictions and good news should be taken with a grain of salt. McLaren needs good news and most of all hope to sell to sponsors. This is the verbal equivalent of running light in testing. After five years of promises, first seeing then believing.
I am sure that this point is being taken very seriously from quite a time now!
I loved the iconic McLaren-Honda
But most of all i love McLaren . After all first contact made with M23 that had a Ford Cosworth PU

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:23 pm

cyclon wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:40 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:57 am
M840TR wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:28 pm
The problem was not the deal. It was excellent on paper. Hundreds of millions in funding with free engines? Deal of a lifetime! It was more the poor execution that got them. Honda didn't even have two years to build the most complex engines in the history of F1. Add that to the fact that they'd been out of the game for years and had to focus on building their facilities and hiring the right people. They should've played it safe and use a cash-strapped team like Caterham as a mule for a few years (like Toro Rosso) while running the Merc engine as a benchmark. I'm sure Honda would've complied with supplying them free engines for a quid pro quo.
Their shortsightedness cost them so much, even their jobs.
The only thing I would add to this is that they should never have joined that first year. They got locked in, the regulations made it impossible to correct fundamental flaws in their design. It wasted 2 more years. Ultimately led to the disastrous season of 2017, where they were finally allowed to completely revamped the PU from head to toe. They would have been better off running a mule at Suzuka the first 2 years.
It's been more than once that Honda denied the use of a mule.
In any case huge respect to Honda.

Now we need consistency with Renault engine and i hear that it will deliver.
I'm not sure Honda denied any mule testing. It was Mclaren who wanted exclusivity.

McG
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McG » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:00 pm

M840TR wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:23 pm
cyclon wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:40 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:57 am


The only thing I would add to this is that they should never have joined that first year. They got locked in, the regulations made it impossible to correct fundamental flaws in their design. It wasted 2 more years. Ultimately led to the disastrous season of 2017, where they were finally allowed to completely revamped the PU from head to toe. They would have been better off running a mule at Suzuka the first 2 years.
It's been more than once that Honda denied the use of a mule.
In any case huge respect to Honda.

Now we need consistency with Renault engine and i hear that it will deliver.
I'm not sure Honda denied any mule testing. It was Mclaren who wanted exclusivity.
There was no mule testing.

M840TR
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:36 am

McG wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:00 pm
M840TR wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:23 pm
cyclon wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:40 pm


It's been more than once that Honda denied the use of a mule.
In any case huge respect to Honda.

Now we need consistency with Renault engine and i hear that it will deliver.
I'm not sure Honda denied any mule testing. It was Mclaren who wanted exclusivity.
There was no mule testing.
That's what I said.