2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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GhostF1
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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What I find odd is this upgraded MGU-K Cyril had been speaking about for 3 years... How did it only come to light recently that it would be larger and wouldn't fit existing packaging, surely this was known... kind of important information to withhold.. and weird/highly suspect that only the factory team could easily integrate this immediately.

RBR have every reason to complain, Renault have been promise lords for a couple years now, nothing Cyril has said has come to fruition. The Spec B was meant to be a big jump, then a race later introducing the new K as well should of made a big boost, but the factory drivers said there has been hardly any change and the Honda is still arguably a little stronger, if not basically identical which is a little telling on each manufacturer's development pace.

Cyril comes across as aggressive and reactionary, the first mention of the already much lauded coming Spec C engine, which he touts to be a huge jump, was in a passive aggressive comment when RBR announced the Honda partnership... in which he also has been very brazen about Honda themselves, insinuating they are not up for the task of winning races while Renault are.

https://www.pitpass.com/62571/Abiteboul ... -at-Horner

This article... this line:

"They will have their engine partner that will be paying a hell of a lot of money to get their product on board, and I wish them good luck," he added, referring to the Austrian outfit's switch to Honda next season. "I have nothing else to say." - Abiteboul.

Implying Honda only only got onboard by paying their way in and not because they have a higher potential or are of equal ability. I've said this in the Renault PU chat in the past, Cyril is bad for the sport, has a sour attitude that has no place in the F1 paddock.

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rscsr
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:07 am
What I find odd is this upgraded MGU-K Cyril had been speaking about for 3 years... How did it only come to light recently that it would be larger and wouldn't fit existing packaging, surely this was known... kind of important information to withhold.. and weird/highly suspect that only the factory team could easily integrate this immediately.
...
My guess would be that RBR won't compromise their car and they just didn't accept any dimension changes. Especially for a measly engine supplier. Maybe Renault tried to improve their MGU-K within the previous dimensions but only "recently" accepted that they couldn't make it work without different dimensions.

McMika98
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Based on some tidbits apparently they have repositioned the MGUK, so likes of RB with such tight packaging would struggle to integrate it.

GhostF1
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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It must of been pretty recent that decision, because you'd think all teams would be aware of a coming requirement.. but the other side is possible, RBR probably asked straight up what the advantage would be and said "nuh not worth it".

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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Verstappen took his third MGU-K in Monaco, the days after the race Renault let know the new MGU-K is now available...

So if they would like to take it, it means a grid penalty. maybe they should have taken it in Hungary, overtaking there wasn't tough at all for Ricciardo. The track also wasn't that great for RBR, nor has it been for the last years. Certainly not like Monaco or even Singapore so it wasn't a chance for a win they were throwing away.
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GhostF1
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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RonDennis wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:58 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:07 am
What I find odd is this upgraded MGU-K Cyril had been speaking about for 3 years... How did it only come to light recently that it would be larger and wouldn't fit existing packaging, surely this was known... kind of important information to withhold.. and weird/highly suspect that only the factory team could easily integrate this immediately.

RBR have every reason to complain, Renault have been promise lords for a couple years now, nothing Cyril has said has come to fruition. The Spec B was meant to be a big jump, then a race later introducing the new K as well should of made a big boost, but the factory drivers said there has been hardly any change and the Honda is still arguably a little stronger, if not basically identical which is a little telling on each manufacturer's development pace.

Cyril comes across as aggressive and reactionary, the first mention of the already much lauded coming Spec C engine, which he touts to be a huge jump, was in a passive aggressive comment when RBR announced the Honda partnership... in which he also has been very brazen about Honda themselves, insinuating they are not up for the task of winning races while Renault are.

https://www.pitpass.com/62571/Abiteboul ... -at-Horner

This article... this line:

"They will have their engine partner that will be paying a hell of a lot of money to get their product on board, and I wish them good luck," he added, referring to the Austrian outfit's switch to Honda next season. "I have nothing else to say." - Abiteboul.

Implying Honda only only got onboard by paying their way in and not because they have a higher potential or are of equal ability. I've said this in the Renault PU chat in the past, Cyril is bad for the sport, has a sour attitude that has no place in the F1 paddock.
So the F1 should also get rid of Verstappen and Horner? Oh wait, it only works one way. Red Bull is god, Renault is sh!t.

carisi2k wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:40 pm
As the previous poster has stated, testing is testing and with no future why would Red Bull waste a test day with Renault. Max's comments were very clear and it is obvious by cyril's own words that Renault built their new package to not be able to fit in to the Red Bull. Even though Red Bull announced Honda engines only at the french GP Red Bull have had access to the Honda engine since Singapore 2017 and the plan was always to switch to Honda.

Red Bull have had ample time to plan for this since Singapore 2017 and an RB14-h has been on the drawing board since daniels batteries blew up in Bahrain. The Honda is a significantly smaller PU then the Renault and Renault have just made their new PU larger with the update. The RB14 should have no issues with a Honda engine installation.

Yeah, you really seem to know a lot about F1. Red Bull has a dnf, ok now it's done, we'll just put in the Honda engine. It's only a few bolts right. Please stop with this useless information and childish speculation.
No. RBR is not god, but neither is Renault. All Horner said was he'll let Cyril answer for another issue. They've had 3 in as many GP's. Renault's response is they don't care. Unprofessional to say the least..even with a current contract in place, Abiteboul is a swine. You're at the top level, if the product is lacklustre, then expect to be publicly humiliated. Honda went through all of that, public humiliation, public bashing, the worst of the lot but they also publicly admitted "we are not good enough right now we know, but we will fix this". Not once has Renault had the spine to admit they are lagging big time, instead saying RBR's complaints are fruitless or tiring. I'm sorry.. but if you're at this level, you deliver or you die. So if Cyril can't hack what is pretty much the truth, then that's on them. Simple as that. Honda went through worse yet handled it with grace and dignity. I cannot say the same for Renault at all.

PhillipM
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Renault went through far, far worse then Honda ever got the first time before RB tried to dump them. And still gave RB an engine when they came back begging. It goes both ways.

GhostF1
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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PhillipM wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:29 pm
Renault went through far, far worse then Honda ever got the first time before RB tried to dump them. And still gave RB an engine when they came back begging. It goes both ways.
They were forced to supply by the FIA. Hardly them being polite, we all know why RBR is third and not finishing races in year 5. We have one side complaining and one bitching about the complaining lol

Anyway, moving on.

RonDennis
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:16 pm
RonDennis wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:58 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:07 am
What I find odd is this upgraded MGU-K Cyril had been speaking about for 3 years... How did it only come to light recently that it would be larger and wouldn't fit existing packaging, surely this was known... kind of important information to withhold.. and weird/highly suspect that only the factory team could easily integrate this immediately.

RBR have every reason to complain, Renault have been promise lords for a couple years now, nothing Cyril has said has come to fruition. The Spec B was meant to be a big jump, then a race later introducing the new K as well should of made a big boost, but the factory drivers said there has been hardly any change and the Honda is still arguably a little stronger, if not basically identical which is a little telling on each manufacturer's development pace.

Cyril comes across as aggressive and reactionary, the first mention of the already much lauded coming Spec C engine, which he touts to be a huge jump, was in a passive aggressive comment when RBR announced the Honda partnership... in which he also has been very brazen about Honda themselves, insinuating they are not up for the task of winning races while Renault are.

https://www.pitpass.com/62571/Abiteboul ... -at-Horner

This article... this line:

"They will have their engine partner that will be paying a hell of a lot of money to get their product on board, and I wish them good luck," he added, referring to the Austrian outfit's switch to Honda next season. "I have nothing else to say." - Abiteboul.

Implying Honda only only got onboard by paying their way in and not because they have a higher potential or are of equal ability. I've said this in the Renault PU chat in the past, Cyril is bad for the sport, has a sour attitude that has no place in the F1 paddock.
So the F1 should also get rid of Verstappen and Horner? Oh wait, it only works one way. Red Bull is god, Renault is sh!t.

carisi2k wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:40 pm
As the previous poster has stated, testing is testing and with no future why would Red Bull waste a test day with Renault. Max's comments were very clear and it is obvious by cyril's own words that Renault built their new package to not be able to fit in to the Red Bull. Even though Red Bull announced Honda engines only at the french GP Red Bull have had access to the Honda engine since Singapore 2017 and the plan was always to switch to Honda.

Red Bull have had ample time to plan for this since Singapore 2017 and an RB14-h has been on the drawing board since daniels batteries blew up in Bahrain. The Honda is a significantly smaller PU then the Renault and Renault have just made their new PU larger with the update. The RB14 should have no issues with a Honda engine installation.

Yeah, you really seem to know a lot about F1. Red Bull has a dnf, ok now it's done, we'll just put in the Honda engine. It's only a few bolts right. Please stop with this useless information and childish speculation.
No. RBR is not god, but neither is Renault. All Horner said was he'll let Cyril answer for another issue. They've had 3 in as many GP's. Renault's response is they don't care. Unprofessional to say the least..even with a current contract in place, Abiteboul is a swine. You're at the top level, if the product is lacklustre, then expect to be publicly humiliated. Honda went through all of that, public humiliation, public bashing, the worst of the lot but they also publicly admitted "we are not good enough right now we know, but we will fix this". Not once has Renault had the spine to admit they are lagging big time, instead saying RBR's complaints are fruitless or tiring. I'm sorry.. but if you're at this level, you deliver or you die. So if Cyril can't hack what is pretty much the truth, then that's on them. Simple as that. Honda went through worse yet handled it with grace and dignity. I cannot say the same for Renault at all.
The only Renault team that are having major issues is Red Bull. They have a history of these things, remember their KERS system a few years back, remember all those problems with the Newey designed McLaren's. The other Red Bulll set the fastest lap, with a Renault engine. I can post a list of quotes here made by Horner that aren't very professional as well. Horner and the whole Red Bull squad are a bunch of whiners and cry baby's, even when they are winning.

GhostF1
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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RonDennis wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:43 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:16 pm
RonDennis wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:58 am


So the F1 should also get rid of Verstappen and Horner? Oh wait, it only works one way. Red Bull is god, Renault is sh!t.





Yeah, you really seem to know a lot about F1. Red Bull has a dnf, ok now it's done, we'll just put in the Honda engine. It's only a few bolts right. Please stop with this useless information and childish speculation.
No. RBR is not god, but neither is Renault. All Horner said was he'll let Cyril answer for another issue. They've had 3 in as many GP's. Renault's response is they don't care. Unprofessional to say the least..even with a current contract in place, Abiteboul is a swine. You're at the top level, if the product is lacklustre, then expect to be publicly humiliated. Honda went through all of that, public humiliation, public bashing, the worst of the lot but they also publicly admitted "we are not good enough right now we know, but we will fix this". Not once has Renault had the spine to admit they are lagging big time, instead saying RBR's complaints are fruitless or tiring. I'm sorry.. but if you're at this level, you deliver or you die. So if Cyril can't hack what is pretty much the truth, then that's on them. Simple as that. Honda went through worse yet handled it with grace and dignity. I cannot say the same for Renault at all.
The only Renault team that are having major issues is Red Bull. They have a history of these things, remember their KERS system a few years back, remember all those problems with the Newey designed McLaren's. The other Red Bulll set the fastest lap, with a Renault engine. I can post a list of quotes here made by Horner that aren't very professional as well. Horner and the whole Red Bull squad are a bunch of whiners and cry baby's, even when they are winning.
Rubbish.. McLaren have had several turbo issues, including preseason and so did Hulkenberg with his spectacular oil sucking smokeshow in Austria.
I haven't once discounted they can still be fast with Renault. However they would be no worse with Honda. I'm aware Horner has been vocal about the issues. However are they actually unwarranted? Not really no.

PhillipM
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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You might find they're a lot worse with Honda compared to TR, if they start running the packaging as tight and as hot as they usually do.

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Shrieker
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Things are turning yet even more sour between Renault and Red Bull (and rightfully so). Do you guys think there's a possibility of Red Bull switching to Honda before the end of the season ? They don't have integration yet, so maybe they can use a slightly modified version of the TR chassis maybe ? What would the rules say about it ?
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restless
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Shrieker wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:43 pm
Things are turning yet even more sour between Renault and Red Bull (and rightfully so). Do you guys think there's a possibility of Red Bull switching to Honda before the end of the season ? They don't have integration yet, so maybe they can use a slightly modified version of the TR chassis maybe ? What would the rules say about it ?
Yes, changing engines in F1 is as easy as changing oil... #-o

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Shrieker wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:43 pm
Things are turning yet even more sour between Renault and Red Bull (and rightfully so). Do you guys think there's a possibility of Red Bull switching to Honda before the end of the season ? They don't have integration yet, so maybe they can use a slightly modified version of the TR chassis maybe ? What would the rules say about it ?
They have to make their own chassis - I believe that is in the rules. They would also have to pass the various crash tests.

It would be possible but I doubt they'd get more than a couple of races in at the end of the season - unless they'd started the process earlier this season.
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apexcontrol
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Well if there is enough money it can be done. And there is enough money.

Redbull/honda have the funds to attack the top. Renault don't

To be fair renault is nothing more then midfield contester.

Honda and redbull are not