2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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zac510
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by zac510 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:02 pm

LM10 wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:36 pm
I see. Thank you for the answer.

I've watched a lap comparison of Vettel's qualification this year and last year. What I find interesting is that this year's lap seemed way smoother (just by looking at the steering wheel) besides them still struggling with the car. On the other hand, as we all know the SF70H was a quite smooth and driveable car from the beginning on, but in the video Vettel looked like he fought much more.
Does this mean that Vettel was on and even over the limit last year and this year not because he maybe lacks trust as he has told? Or the basis of this year's car might be good so it is that smooth on the track, but still not there where they want it to be?

Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rYn7eytgW8
Great video, Vettel looks like he's on an in-lap (2018)!

marvin78
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by marvin78 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:23 am

Look at B195. The fastest car is not always smooth.

Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Big Mangalhit » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:09 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:53 pm

Going back to the race, it was not surprising to see him struggle a bit more on softer tyres. Softer tyres, as far as I know, bring the car handling towards over steer, while harder tyres bring it towards under steer.
Really? I would imagine it being the other way around. Rear tyres are bigger so when they go to softer compounds I would've imagined they gain more grip in the rear than the front and so become more understeery.

Silent Storm
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Silent Storm » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:06 pm

Big Mangalhit wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:09 pm
Vanja #66 wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:53 pm

Going back to the race, it was not surprising to see him struggle a bit more on softer tyres. Softer tyres, as far as I know, bring the car handling towards over steer, while harder tyres bring it towards under steer.
Really? I would imagine it being the other way around. Rear tyres are bigger so when they go to softer compounds I would've imagined they gain more grip in the rear than the front and so become more understeery.
Gary Anderson explained during the winter test on Autosport that if a car has small understeer tendency on SS, switching to US or HS tyres will increase the understeer. Fitting Softs or Medium will reduce the understeer.

Now based on Gary Anderson's credibility we can exclude this possibility.

So Vanja might be right here because I remember 2014 Singapore Qualifying session, where on the super soft tyre Kimi got the perfect balance he needed and was right up there with Nico and Lewis, Martin Brundle mentioned how Kimi was struggling with understeer on the Softs but the front was biting the way he wanted on turn in on the SS tyres, but engine issue on the final run meant he couldn't show his pace.
There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.

CriXus
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by CriXus » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:10 pm

Silent Storm wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:06 pm
Big Mangalhit wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:09 pm
Vanja #66 wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:53 pm

Going back to the race, it was not surprising to see him struggle a bit more on softer tyres. Softer tyres, as far as I know, bring the car handling towards over steer, while harder tyres bring it towards under steer.
Really? I would imagine it being the other way around. Rear tyres are bigger so when they go to softer compounds I would've imagined they gain more grip in the rear than the front and so become more understeery.
Gary Anderson explained during the winter test on Autosport that if a car has small understeer tendency on SS, switching to US or HS tyres will increase the understeer. Fitting Softs or Medium will reduce the understeer.
It is actually the opposite. If a car has understeer on hard tires, switiching to softer compound will decrease it. I cannot believe GA still has a job.
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etusch
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by etusch » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:22 pm

Does car behaviour change by tyre choise or car keep same characteristic but shows it at a bit higher speed because of better grip of the softer tyre (if it tend to understeer, it understeer with softer tyre too but a bit lesser understeer because of more grip)

Vanja #66
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Vanja #66 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:43 pm

Silent Storm wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:06 pm
Gary Anderson explained during the winter test on Autosport that if a car has small understeer tendency on SS, switching to US or HS tyres will increase the understeer. Fitting Softs or Medium will reduce the understeer.
Actually, I remember him saying softer compounds bring more grip on the front end, opposite of what you wrote. :)
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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LM10
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by LM10 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:13 pm

Vettel told that he felt more comfortable on the Softs than on the Hypersofts. Since he likes understeer we can tell that it might be true that switching to harder compounds increases understeer.

digitalrurouni
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by digitalrurouni » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:34 pm

etusch wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:22 pm
Does car behaviour change by tyre choise or car keep same characteristic but shows it at a bit higher speed because of better grip of the softer tyre (if it tend to understeer, it understeer with softer tyre too but a bit lesser understeer because of more grip)
In my non professional tracking experience, when I am on cold tires I get way more front scrub. If I keep trying to push I will just understeer off the road.

I get a little bit of temp in the tires by letting the car scrub the tires by just gently pushing in the corners little more at a time when and then in a short period of time like end of 1 lap or two I can start leaning on them heavily and soon I am at a point where I am driving as much as my skill level allows me.

So keeping that in mind my experience is cold tire lots of understeer hot tire no understeer that I CAN generate probably because of my skill level. I think though I would say the understeer won't totally disappear because the car's chassis is probably set up for understeer at the limit unless you get the car to rotate. It's just it understeers imperceptibly to me at my skill level with hot tires. Hope that made sense.

Juzh
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Juzh » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:54 pm

zac510 wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:02 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:36 pm
I see. Thank you for the answer.

I've watched a lap comparison of Vettel's qualification this year and last year. What I find interesting is that this year's lap seemed way smoother (just by looking at the steering wheel) besides them still struggling with the car. On the other hand, as we all know the SF70H was a quite smooth and driveable car from the beginning on, but in the video Vettel looked like he fought much more.
Does this mean that Vettel was on and even over the limit last year and this year not because he maybe lacks trust as he has told? Or the basis of this year's car might be good so it is that smooth on the track, but still not there where they want it to be?

Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rYn7eytgW8
Great video, Vettel looks like he's on an in-lap (2018)!
Quite clearly 2018 lap is not his final Q3 lap (fastest one) because the lights are not red at the end of it.

PhillipM
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by PhillipM » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:59 pm

Generally, although to varying degrees depending on team and car, the balance is setup for slight oversteer mechanically where it's of most benefit in tight low speed corners, and slight understeer from the aero loads, since that is generally easier/faster to deal with through high speed complexes.
So yes, as a rough rule of thumb, softer tyres will shift the balance toward oversteer, harder towards understeer. With the very big caveat that it depends on how well tyre temps are managed and switched on per car/driver.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by PlatinumZealot » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:54 am

digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:34 pm
etusch wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:22 pm
Does car behaviour change by tyre choise or car keep same characteristic but shows it at a bit higher speed because of better grip of the softer tyre (if it tend to understeer, it understeer with softer tyre too but a bit lesser understeer because of more grip)
In my non professional tracking experience, when I am on cold tires I get way more front scrub. If I keep trying to push I will just understeer off the road.

I get a little bit of temp in the tires by letting the car scrub the tires by just gently pushing in the corners little more at a time when and then in a short period of time like end of 1 lap or two I can start leaning on them heavily and soon I am at a point where I am driving as much as my skill level allows me.

So keeping that in mind my experience is cold tire lots of understeer hot tire no understeer that I CAN generate probably because of my skill level. I think though I would say the understeer won't totally disappear because the car's chassis is probably set up for understeer at the limit unless you get the car to rotate. It's just it understeers imperceptibly to me at my skill level with hot tires. Hope that made sense.
This! It is more about temperature management than hard or soft. Depending on how the stars align Kimi takes forever to warm up the front tyres and is when he struggles in qualifying against Vettel.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

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Silent Storm
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Silent Storm » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:25 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:43 pm
Silent Storm wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:06 pm
Gary Anderson explained during the winter test on Autosport that if a car has small understeer tendency on SS, switching to US or HS tyres will increase the understeer. Fitting Softs or Medium will reduce the understeer.
Actually, I remember him saying softer compounds bring more grip on the front end, opposite of what you wrote. :)
Check 17:41 :) https://www.autosport.com/f1/live/27509 ... y-two-2018
Gary Anderson wrote:
17:41 It's not only about fitting a set of softer tyres on a given car to achieve a better lap time, it also depends on the balance of the car when you do that.

For example, if the car has a small understeer tendency on supersofts, fitting ultrasofts or even hypersofts might not give you a better lap time, it will just increase the understeer

Fitting softs or even mediums probably will because it will reduce the understeer. The driver can only push that bit extra if the car is well balanced and tyres play a huge role in that.

Ricciardo just gained something like half a second from ultrasofts to hypersofts, so that says to me that his car was a little oversteery with the ultrasofts and the hypersofts fixed that problem and allowed him to push that little bit more.

Gary Anderson
There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.

Vanja #66
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Vanja #66 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:06 pm

Silent Storm wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:25 pm
Check 17:41 :) https://www.autosport.com/f1/live/27509 ... y-two-2018
Sweet Jesus, I was 99% sure he said it different :lol: Maybe he did say it different some other day :D
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

digitalrurouni
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by digitalrurouni » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:02 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:54 am
Depending on how the stars align Kimi takes forever to warm up the front tyres and is when he struggles in qualifying against Vettel.
It surprises me when a pro like Kimi or any other F1 star struggles to warm up the tires before their attack lap. I guess I just can't relate to them cause I never drove an F1 car! :P