2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Ferrari (or maybe Red Bull at least) and Liberty Media in particular should have got Alonso in that car for 2019-2020...yes right there with Vettel for Formula 1's sake! And then bring Leclerc in the team in 2021! I am a Mercedes-Hamilton fan and that would have been awful for us if Ferrari keeps on building great cars, but it would have been such a great championship having Alonso in the title fight...it would bring back 2007 memories...sad memories for me though! :lol:
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

M840TR
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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LM10 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:27 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:08 pm
So Ferrari need a driver capable of dragging a lesser car around to mount a decent title challenge. Vettel is no good at all for that. Fernando on the other hand....
Dragging a lesser car around is one thing, dragging a lesser car and a lesser team another.

Vettel definitely needs to sort some things out, but so does his team. Even in Vettel’s crash in Germany the team played a significant role, in my opinion. Knowing that Hamilton would be clearly faster than the rest in wet conditions, they should have let Vettel pass Kimi way before instead of holding him up. This way the pressure on Vettel would have not been unnecessarily big.
Good point. I remember Alonso always used to complain on the radio if he got stuck behind Massa. And rightly so. He knew he was too far ahead in the points and already had his mind on the championship from day 1. He forced the team to make the decision in their best interests.

LM10
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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GrayGreat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:41 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:27 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:08 pm
So Ferrari need a driver capable of dragging a lesser car around to mount a decent title challenge. Vettel is no good at all for that. Fernando on the other hand....
Dragging a lesser car around is one thing, dragging a lesser car and a lesser team another.

Vettel definitely needs to sort some things out, but so does his team. Even in Vettel’s crash in Germany the team played a significant role, in my opinion. Knowing that Hamilton would be clearly faster than the rest in wet conditions, they should have let Vettel pass Kimi way before instead of holding him up. This way the pressure on Vettel would have not been unnecessarily big.
Even at that, Fernando will be miles ahead of Vettel, as evidenced by his stint at McLaren.
The only evidence you have is that he’s better than Vandoorne. No benchmark.

marmer
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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LM10 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:00 pm
GrayGreat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:41 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:27 pm


Dragging a lesser car around is one thing, dragging a lesser car and a lesser team another.

Vettel definitely needs to sort some things out, but so does his team. Even in Vettel’s crash in Germany the team played a significant role, in my opinion. Knowing that Hamilton would be clearly faster than the rest in wet conditions, they should have let Vettel pass Kimi way before instead of holding him up. This way the pressure on Vettel would have not been unnecessarily big.
Even at that, Fernando will be miles ahead of Vettel, as evidenced by his stint at McLaren.
The only evidence you have is that he’s better than Vandoorne. No benchmark.
he was generally quicker than button?

and while at Ferrari he was generally quicker by a bigger margin to kimi than what seb is

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subcritical71
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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This from reddit last year;
Image

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F1NAC
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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marmer wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:02 am
LM10 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:00 pm
GrayGreat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:41 pm


Even at that, Fernando will be miles ahead of Vettel, as evidenced by his stint at McLaren.
The only evidence you have is that he’s better than Vandoorne. No benchmark.
he was generally quicker than button?

and while at Ferrari he was generally quicker by a bigger margin to kimi than what seb is
well Kimi was new in the team. Didn't even had his inputs on early car development (during 2013 season). Based on plots we see that Kimi isn't that special anymore, and combine this with fact that he had car that was not suited to his driving style and we get that massive difference. But put Alonso in 2017,2018 beside Kimi and it won get that bad. Vettel in his first season with Ferrari (same as for Kimi) nailed him. What about that? everyone is mentioning 2014 and how Alonso is the greatest based on that gap. Come on.

GoranF1
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

dans79
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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If true, that would pretty much be the end of his career.
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bosyber
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Have to say, I'm sceptical (also given the source); And I am not so sure that it would be a great way to go. So they get Alonso then? Which means that Leclerc has a very political and often destabilising teammate in his first year in the big league - so that's a damper on him; the team has gotten their car this way by not firing people every few races if things didn't go their way; I think Vettel's mistakes have come from feeling pressured to bring results bc. he didn't feel the team gave him everything he needed (not saying that's quite true) - the best way to go would be to sit him down, say it's clear as a team Ferrari isn't going to win it this year, now they need to calm down, get the best results for the rest of the year, and let's focus on delivering consistently good weekends, together.

But, granted, not sure Ferrari is the team that can, eh, consistently do that, esp. if rumours of leadership struggles are true.

GoranF1
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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bosyber wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:59 am
Have to say, I'm sceptical (also given the source); And I am not so sure that it would be a great way to go. So they get Alonso then? Which means that Leclerc has a very political and often destabilising teammate in his first year in the big league - so that's a damper on him; the team has gotten their car this way by not firing people every few races if things didn't go their way; I think Vettel's mistakes have come from feeling pressured to bring results bc. he didn't feel the team gave him everything he needed (not saying that's quite true) - the best way to go would be to sit him down, say it's clear as a team Ferrari isn't going to win it this year, now they need to calm down, get the best results for the rest of the year, and let's focus on delivering consistently good weekends, together.

But, granted, not sure Ferrari is the team that can, eh, consistently do that, esp. if rumours of leadership struggles are true.
It says at he end of 2019
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

bosyber
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Yeah, so the whole of 2019 is a Ferrari pressure cooker, right? That is going to be explosive I bet, but not in a way that helps an exciting f1 championship.

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Phil
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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A lot can change until the end of 2019. Arguably though, I'd say the performance clauses are tricky. How do you contractually determine which is the "best car"? The only valid metric would be the WCC points. However, if the drivers both under perform, the 'best car' may not be leading the WCC championship.

Point in case:
When Vettel triggered a performance clause to leave RedBull, it was his own WDC standing that triggered him being able to leave. In 2014, he was lower than 3rd and that enabled him to exit RedBull.

If there was a similar clause stipulated in Vettels contract, I'm unsure how and what would trigger it. He has finished in the top 3 the last 2 seasons, while Ferrari will most likely finish 2nd in the WCC. That isn't the metric that would highlight Vettel "underperforming".

As much as it's popular to bash Vettel (and yes, he has made some very costly mistakes), the team has also undeniably played their role in aiding those driver related mistakes. Point in case; Hockenheim when they left Kimi in front of Vettel prior to the rain. Monza where the two drivers battled each other rather than playing the team-game to ensure a strong 1-2 etc. At Singapore, they lost valuable time in Q2 when they again attempted to go out on the harder tire, something that clearly wasn't going to work. Instead of building confidence for Q3, the drivers got themselves under pressure to even make it into Q3. Then there is also the mistake at Japan when Ferrari sent both drivers out on the wrong tire during Q3 (intermediates, instead of US). This put them on the backfoot with more pressure to perform when it counted.

I'd also argue that the drivers performance is very dependent on the team's overall performance. A wrong set-up can easily exaggerate the performance of the driver on track. So yes, Vettel has made mistakes, but Ferrari has played its role too in aiding those mistakes from happening in the first place. The term 'pressure cooker' very much applies.

Ferrari need to take a good long and hard look at themselves, not just their driver.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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GoranF1
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I see 3 different scenarios...
1. Vettel wins title and stays on
2. Leclerk wins title, Vettel leaves, Alonso doesnt join Leclerk
3. Neither Ferrari driver wins in 2019, Alonso replaces Vettel
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

dans79
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Phil wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:40 pm
The only valid metric would be the WCC points. However, if the drivers both under perform, the 'best car' may not be leading the WCC championship.
I assume the the clause would be a direct comparison to his teammate. it's already been said that Leclerc is seen as Ferrari's future. Thus, if he beats Vettel next year, or is very close to him, I could see Vettel potentially being dropped. It would clear a potential seat for Giovinazzi, and would also free up a lot of money.

https://www.reuters.com/article/motor-f ... SKCN1LU1YI
“When you make choices like this, that are related to the driver, you don’t only have to make a short-term commitment but a long-term one,” Arrivabene said.

“We are not only looking ahead to next year, we are looking into the future, that being the future of the team.

“This was a decision taken by me, discussed with the top management and taking into consideration many, many factors. It has nothing to do with the respect I have for Kimi as both a human being and as a driver,” he added of the 38-year-old Finn.

“If you have to make a choice about the future of the team then I think we made the right one for us and for Kimi, who we appreciate for everything he has done for us and wish him the best for the future.”
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Does anyone really believe that Alonso would come back to F1, specifically to Ferrari, after a year out doing other stuff? If he enjoys Indy / WEC / whatever then why come back? At his age, an extra title won't make much difference. Enjoying racing again would be a bigger draw, surely. And he still has his Grand Slam aspirations too.

Once he's away from the closed-shop circus of F1, I think Alonso will remember how much fun can be had racing cars and he'll be loathe to come back to "the circus" again.
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