2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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tpe
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vettel needs professional help.
It's not bad to have a coach to help him understand what the problem is and how to solve it.

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subcritical71
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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tpe wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:16 pm
Vettel needs professional help.
It's not bad to have a coach to help him understand what the problem is and how to solve it.
For some reason in racing it is looked down upon when a driver seeks a driving coach. Imagine any other sport where athletes at the highest level didn't have a coach. I think those that do seek coaches in racing are better for it.

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RZS10
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I think this was about a mental coach / shrink

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iotar__
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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"Small", silly mistakes again? Best car, ignoring reds and spin after attempted leaning on the other car went wrong when Ricciardo run off track - Suzuka outcome without the other car because you can't take corners like that. What is to blame:

- pressure? What pressure? There was zero pressure, championships are gone. You want to see pressure, watch Mercedes' strategy and Hamilton's no attempt against M.V..
- Marchionne's death? He hired both drivers FFS :x .
- team, car?

No, it's called running out of talent, consistent level of no performance with few highlights to counter it. Let me stress it: in no pressure environment, getting away without penalties, limited or nonexistent competition and with Raikkonen as a team mate. Ferrari's failure is a half a decade desing, not some product of pressure and small mistakes.

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diffuser
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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iotar__ wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:47 am
"Small", silly mistakes again? Best car, ignoring reds and spin after attempted leaning on the other car went wrong when Ricciardo run off track - Suzuka outcome without the other car because you can't take corners like that. What is to blame:

- pressure? What pressure? There was zero pressure, championships are gone. You want to see pressure, watch Mercedes' strategy and Hamilton's no attempt against M.V..
- Marchionne's death? He hired both drivers FFS :x .
- team, car?

No, it's called running out of talent, consistent level of no performance with few highlights to counter it. Let me stress it: in no pressure environment, getting away without penalties, limited or nonexistent competition and with Raikkonen as a team mate. Ferrari's failure is a half a decade desing, not some product of pressure and small mistakes.
He sure didn't drive like he had no pressure. He was trying to make up places early, prevent falling too far behind Hamilton. He's making bad decisions:
-Tried to pass someone who's known to make alot of contact in a very odd place.
- There was no need to force thtat pass there, He could have waited for the straight.
- He carried too much speed into the curve.

He's trying to force it instead of waiting for it to come to him. During his titles with RBR, he often started on the front row.

The funny thing is he likely would have finished ahead of Hamilton had he not tried to pass there.

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Juzh
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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iotar__ wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:47 am
"Small", silly mistakes again? Best car, ignoring reds and spin after attempted leaning on the other car went wrong when Ricciardo run off track - Suzuka outcome without the other car because you can't take corners like that. What is to blame:

- pressure? What pressure? There was zero pressure, championships are gone. You want to see pressure, watch Mercedes' strategy and Hamilton's no attempt against M.V..
- Marchionne's death? He hired both drivers FFS :x .
- team, car?

No, it's called running out of talent, consistent level of no performance with few highlights to counter it. Let me stress it: in no pressure environment, getting away without penalties, limited or nonexistent competition and with Raikkonen as a team mate. Ferrari's failure is a half a decade desing, not some product of pressure and small mistakes.
how's your bottas doing lately?

Raleigh
Raleigh
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Seb is fast but he’s never had the racecraft some of the other top drivers have.

At this point he’s flapping, one mistake leads to another because he’s trying to make up for the last one.

Similar thing happened to Max at the start of this year, he’s bounced back though but Vettel is going into the last 3 races with a massive cloud hanging over him.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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subcritical71 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:28 pm
tpe wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:16 pm
Vettel needs professional help.
It's not bad to have a coach to help him understand what the problem is and how to solve it.
For some reason in racing it is looked down upon when a driver seeks a driving coach. Imagine any other sport where athletes at the highest level didn't have a coach. I think those that do seek coaches in racing are better for it.
My understanding is that most drivers get coaching these days.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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siskue2005
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:08 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:28 pm
tpe wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:16 pm
Vettel needs professional help.
It's not bad to have a coach to help him understand what the problem is and how to solve it.
For some reason in racing it is looked down upon when a driver seeks a driving coach. Imagine any other sport where athletes at the highest level didn't have a coach. I think those that do seek coaches in racing are better for it.
My understanding is that most drivers get coaching these days.
Vettel doesn't need driver coaching, he needs psychologist, just like Rosberg was using in 2015 2016. Which he claimed what gave him mental strength to beat Lewis

LM10
LM10
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vettel and Hamilton are 2 completely different types of characters. At the very top level everything matters, in this case it’s the mental part.
Hamilton naturally is a cool personality. He’s a bad boy, if you want so and Vettel is the “emotional” (Hamilton is emotional too, but you know what I mean) family person. Add the pressure coming from Italian media and the pressure because people, especially Ferrari fans of course, expect him to deliver and you might get what we have now. He also puts pressure on himself because it’s his childhood dream to win in a Ferrari. The bad news is that the pressure increases with every lost season and on the other hand the pressure on Hamilton and Mercedes decreases because they and people know they can win and they don’t need to prove anything.

timbo
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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LM10 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:30 pm
Hamilton naturally is a cool personality.
C'mon. Haven't you forget the end of 2007? Or 2011 (5 crashes with Massa in one year)?
Even the start of this season -- he wasn't always on top of the situation.
LM10 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:30 pm
The bad news is that the pressure increases with every lost season and on the other hand the pressure on Hamilton and Mercedes decreases because they and people know they can win and they don’t need to prove anything.
But I do agree with this assessment. And IMO it is the team which should get behind the driver.

IMO you cannot put the blame on the driver, even if he makes mistakes. The driver is alone in the car, he has to make split-second decisions in the heat of the battle. The driver is always the main asset of the team, and the team should do anything to maximize the performance of the driver.
This year and last there were multiple occasions when the team felt disorganized. Remember the famous "steering wheel, hey, gimme a steering wheel" by Raikkonen? As humorous as it is, do you really think such situation can positively contribute to the performance of the driver?
Or the red-flag penalty by Vettel -- what was his race engineer doing? Couldn't he say that Vettel is going too fast?
I don't want to say that Ferrari is disorganized or unprofessional. And the team itself can and would make mistakes (Mercedes also does this). But there are I think some details which might be lacking.
I also think that Vettel needs a new race engineer. It's not like they don't get along, but I think at this moment Vettel needs some change in the environment to get out of the rut.

tpe
tpe
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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subcritical71 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:28 pm
tpe wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:16 pm
Vettel needs professional help.
It's not bad to have a coach to help him understand what the problem is and how to solve it.
For some reason in racing it is looked down upon when a driver seeks a driving coach. Imagine any other sport where athletes at the highest level didn't have a coach. I think those that do seek coaches in racing are better for it.
He doesn't need a driving coach, obviously. But someone to help him to cool down and teach him how to react under pressure.

marmer
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Perhaps the first sign of vettels weakness in wheel to wheel driving or at least one I can pick out.

Button overtaking him on the last lap to win in Canada after vettel ran wide he had been chased down for a good few laps although it was marginal if button would have caught him but clearly it was forcing seb to drive to and above his and the cars limit

timbo
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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marmer wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:02 pm
Perhaps the first sign of vettels weakness in wheel to wheel driving or at least one I can pick out.

Button overtaking him on the last lap to win in Canada after vettel ran wide he had been chased down for a good few laps although it was marginal if button would have caught him but clearly it was forcing seb to drive to and above his and the cars limit
Well, there were a few in the history. He crashed into Button in Spa 2010, and don't forget famous Vettel/Webber get together that year also. Oh, and he crashed with Kubica in Australia in 2009.
So he has a history. But people compare him with Lewis all the time now. And Lewis does have a history of crashes during fights for the position too.

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subcritical71
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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tpe wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:46 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:28 pm
tpe wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:16 pm
Vettel needs professional help.
It's not bad to have a coach to help him understand what the problem is and how to solve it.
For some reason in racing it is looked down upon when a driver seeks a driving coach. Imagine any other sport where athletes at the highest level didn't have a coach. I think those that do seek coaches in racing are better for it.
He doesn't need a driving coach, obviously. But someone to help him to cool down and teach him how to react under pressure.
I think we are talking about the same thing. There is no doubt about his raw talent, he just needs to tweak a few things. As an example of what I mean by driving coach here is a copy/paste from a professional race driver coach on the services they provide;
In short Enzo has successfully spent the past 19 years teaching drivers how to:
  • Control their emotions
  • Perform under pressure
  • Overcome personal performance obstacles
  • Overcome the past
  • Improve their work ethic
  • Improve their lap time
  • Build strong self confidence
  • Lead their team
  • Sell themselves and stand out
  • Improve their mental performance
  • Improve their race craft