2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Unc1eM0nty » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:25 am

Big Tea wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:54 am
Decision by committee does not work in F1 due to time constrains and differing visions. It needs a "what I say goes, and goes now" approach.
He's not head of anything, he's been taken on as a consultant, other than that it sounds like its business as usual within Williams

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Manoah2u » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:29 am

ringo wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:53 am
If Head is back... then it means that the engineers are not as crappy as i thought. It must be leadership and management.. which then lands the blame at Claire's feet. I always refrained from blaming her for the team's issues, even when others first reflex is to call for her head. I figured it was a subconscious sexism.. but now i think all indicators are pointing to Claire. But she is the Boss' daughter.. gonna be hard to remove her from leadership.
indeed, from the get go what i mentioned. sad that more than 1 seem to only be able to read that as sexism,
which it is far from. and yes, that last line is the very problem of it all.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Manoah2u » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:30 am

Unc1eM0nty wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:25 am
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:54 am
Decision by committee does not work in F1 due to time constrains and differing visions. It needs a "what I say goes, and goes now" approach.
He's not head of anything, he's been taken on as a consultant, other than that it sounds like its business as usual within Williams
that approach is exactly which does NOT work at williams and is what Ralf mentioned is the culture at williams.
dictatorship does not work in motorsports, its a TEAM effort, and that's what causes the problem. Williams is not running as a TEAM.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

netoperek
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by netoperek » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:12 pm

ringo wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:53 am
If Head is back... then it means that the engineers are not as crappy as i thought. It must be leadership and management.. which then lands the blame at Claire's feet. I always refrained from blaming her for the team's issues, even when others first reflex is to call for her head. I figured it was a subconscious sexism.. but now i think all indicators are pointing to Claire. But she is the Boss' daughter.. gonna be hard to remove her from leadership.
Claire is at the top, which would make the economics and manager apointments her main responsibilities. Finances seem ok which would suggest Williams is being run well business-wise. That's her job to make sure budget isn't overblown and income compensate for costs. Whether income is maximized, budget big enough to achieve the goals or spent efficiently it's hard to tell. At the end of the day, Williams is self sustainable as a business. That's Claire's job to make it so, and so it is. The one thing that is certainly not working properly is execution on technical part of F1 business and that is a responsibility of Technical Director. If Claire is to blame it's for appointing TD incapable of doing his job properly. She actually took that blame on herself lately, as she admitted they reshuffled a bit to make the final step from fighting for podiums to contending for WCCs. It didn't work apparently, so the board takes blame for not opting on stagnation.

Sulman
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Sulman » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:28 pm

Poor leadership starts to work like a systemic disease - it gets into everything. On the other hand, it cannot be so bad as Williams appear to be doing everything else correctly; their engineering business is excellent, financially they're superbly organized, it's just that something has slipped on the F1 side and it's caused a dramatic effect. As I said up thread they're not catastrophically slow - this isn't Forti territory - they're just a smidge off the pace.

It is unquestionably Claire's responsibility, even if it is not her 'fault'. Hopefully Patrick Head can talk some sense into Sir Frank.

littlebigcat
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by littlebigcat » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:01 pm

I think the problem Williams have existed before she took on the job. The team was flattered by the Mercedes engine and in the last five years as parity has been found they have slipped back because they just don't have the talent or facilities.

I think that she has managed to keep the business profitable is to her credit.

Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Big Tea » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:17 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:30 am
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:25 am
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:54 am
Decision by committee does not work in F1 due to time constrains and differing visions. It needs a "what I say goes, and goes now" approach.
He's not head of anything, he's been taken on as a consultant, other than that it sounds like its business as usual within Williams
that approach is exactly which does NOT work at williams and is what Ralf mentioned is the culture at williams.
dictatorship does not work in motorsports, its a TEAM effort, and that's what causes the problem. Williams is not running as a TEAM.
That was 'old Williams' who seemed to have good leaders everywhere, I do not feel it has carried over to 'New Williams'. I do not know as I do not know anyone in the team, but it seems like it to me. I am quite willing to be corrected though.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

kptaylor
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by kptaylor » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:00 pm

Exactly! Williams needs some direction rather than chasing too many rabbits down their holes. Hopefully Head can focus them on just a few directions rather than chasing all possible issues with the car without a cohesive knowledge of what they're doing and why.

adrianjordan
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by adrianjordan » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:36 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:30 am
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:25 am
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:54 am
Decision by committee does not work in F1 due to time constrains and differing visions. It needs a "what I say goes, and goes now" approach.
He's not head of anything, he's been taken on as a consultant, other than that it sounds like its business as usual within Williams
that approach is exactly which does NOT work at williams and is what Ralf mentioned is the culture at williams.
dictatorship does not work in motorsports, its a TEAM effort, and that's what causes the problem. Williams is not running as a TEAM.
Dictatorship and leadership are two different things though.

A good leader will listen to all the people around them and consult them, trying to arrive at a consensus. Ultimately though, there needs to be one voice leading things otherwise you can get confusion arising.

I don't lead anything like as many people as an F1 team, but I do lead small teams of clinicians in high pressure situations (for example cardiac arrests).
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Manoah2u » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:45 pm

adrianjordan wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:36 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:30 am
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:25 am


He's not head of anything, he's been taken on as a consultant, other than that it sounds like its business as usual within Williams
that approach is exactly which does NOT work at williams and is what Ralf mentioned is the culture at williams.
dictatorship does not work in motorsports, its a TEAM effort, and that's what causes the problem. Williams is not running as a TEAM.
Dictatorship and leadership are two different things though.

A good leader will listen to all the people around them and consult them, trying to arrive at a consensus. Ultimately though, there needs to be one voice leading things otherwise you can get confusion arising.

I don't lead anything like as many people as an F1 team, but I do lead small teams of clinicians in high pressure situations (for example cardiac arrests).
I'll throw in some quotes from famous and successfull SIR Richard Branson
Train people well enough so they can leave, treat them well enough so they don’t want to.
I have always believed that the way you treat your employees is the way they will treat your customers, and that people flourish when they are praised.
How slim the line is between genius and insanity and between determination and stubbornness.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

ringo
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by ringo » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:07 am

What gets me at Williams... is how teams like Haas, Torro Rosso and Racing Point make things seem so much easier and organized.
Is Williams missing out on some new model for F1 or something? Why do they seem to insulated to changes in the F1 environment.
They may need a consultant who is younger and has overseen other better performing teams. I hate to say it but they could do well with some Mclaren and Ferrari rejects like Eric Boulier, or Domenicali.
For Sure!!

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by SmallSoldier » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:14 am

adrianjordan wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:30 am
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:25 am
He's not head of anything, he's been taken on as a consultant, other than that it sounds like its business as usual within Williams
that approach is exactly which does NOT work at williams and is what Ralf mentioned is the culture at williams.
dictatorship does not work in motorsports, its a TEAM effort, and that's what causes the problem. Williams is not running as a TEAM.
Dictatorship and leadership are two different things though.

A good leader will listen to all the people around them and consult them, trying to arrive at a consensus. Ultimately though, there needs to be one voice leading things otherwise you can get confusion arising.

I don't lead anything like as many people as an F1 team, but I do lead small teams of clinicians in high pressure situations (for example cardiac arrests).
I don’t think a good leader looks for “consensus”... A good leader has to listen to what his team members have to say with as much objectivity as possible and trying to not to have a predetermined path before hand.

But, there is no democracy... There is no voting... There is no consensus... The chain of command has to be clear and when it comes to down to make decisions it has to be a tyrannical minority of 1


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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by SmallSoldier » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:19 am

ringo wrote:What gets me at Williams... is how teams like Haas, Torro Rosso and Racing Point make things seem so much easier and organized.
Is Williams missing out on some new model for F1 or something? Why do they seem to insulated to changes in the F1 environment.
They may need a consultant who is younger and has overseen other better performing teams. I hate to say it but they could do well with some Mclaren and Ferrari rejects like Eric Boulier, or Domenicali.
Without knowing exactly what is going wrong with the car, we can only speculate... At the same time, I don’t think that building a “performing” F1 car is very easy... It took Mclaren half a season to understand what the problem in the MCL33 was and they used the rest of that season to work on potential solutions and in the background in what today is the MCL34... Williams was in an even worst position than Mclaren last year and it seems that they didn’t found out the root of the problem with their car... If they know now, the job unluckily is to get the fix in place even if that means throwing the whole season away... Part of the problem that a team like Williams has (and that even Mclaren still have) is that they are working with new concepts instead of evolutions of their previous year car and that implies starting a bit behind than the rest.


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Sulman
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Sulman » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:00 pm

McLaren are just as important as Williams to F1.

The A/B team model is a fudge that I'm not sure is sustainable, for starters it means that if the senior team is in trouble, so is the junior. Strong independents are a must and Liberty recognises this

What is a puzzle is that Williams themselves are not providing those services to other teams.

As regards Haas, check out the Gunther Steiner interview on formula1.com it explains their model pretty well.

Raleigh
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Raleigh » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:32 pm

Sulman wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:00 pm
McLaren are just as important as Williams to F1.

The A/B team model is a fudge that I'm not sure is sustainable, for starters it means that if the senior team is in trouble, so is the junior. Strong independents are a must and Liberty recognises this

What is a puzzle is that Williams themselves are not providing those services to other teams.

As regards Haas, check out the Gunther Steiner interview on formula1.com it explains their model pretty well.
Williams had a link up with Manor, providing the rear end for the MRT05 along with engineering support. The problem is why would you buy suspension from Williams (even when they were on the podium) when Ferrari and Mercedes parts can be obtained for similar prices.