2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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bill shoe wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:46 pm
So Williams retires Kubica from Russian GP, to essentially save money. There was no real safety issue, and given Kubica's 100% finish record there was no unusual or unreasonable risk of him having a major accident that writes off lots of parts.

Now his sponsor is asking: If we bought Kubica a seat fair and square and we've paid our bills, then can Williams just choose to withdraw him in the middle of a race to save their money? Are Williams then fulfilling the contract? Seems fair question.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/spon ... t/4551931/

Keeping an F1 team running through bad times is an ugly process. Remember Kaltenborn at Sauber and her 3 contracted race drivers?-- Bluntly unfair and unethical in the short term, but realistically kept Sauber going in the long term.
Claire is just as incompetent as Monisha. The difference is that Claire is 'family' and 'inherited' the position, so it's a bit different and more difficult to ditch her.
The sponsors are right and i'm happy it gets adressed. Just more incompentance of Claire to have this happen. It's like the team is run by a pack of total incompetent people who have no idea how to run an f1 team and simply put something together which they don't understand. I'm baffled this is possible with a team which was at one point such a 'giant'.

I'd be curious to see just how far Orlen is gonna take this, perhaps demand some funds back or if funds roll in in monthly wages, they'll simply pay less for what happened in Sochi.

It actually might especially hurt Orlen more that it happened, from all tracks, in Sochi, as though Orlen is of Polish nature, there is no Polish GP and i wonder just how much business and revenue Orlen gets from 'soviet' Russia.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Big Tea wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:11 pm
gshevlin wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:49 pm
Williams are in danger of digging themselves into a hole with potential sponsors. Sponsors do not expect a team to retire a healthy car from a race.
Cruel as it sounds, the car probably had more TV coverage than it would had it plodded on to the end.
Not really, there were many times we saw Williams being lapped and overtaken during the GP, that would happen more till the end. Instead, we have had TV coverage of a crashing Williams, which is never a good thing as your sponsors are linked to a crashing car.

and then, a perfectly healthy car is parked spiking more questions and a negative situation about a team you're sponsoring. it's not positive exposure.

positive exposure would have been having the car finished.

If they did that in Germany, they would have missed out on a point, and just shows how dumb it has been.

For example, what if LeClerc's Ferrari suffered the same fate as that of Vettel and would have given another Safety car? Or LeClerc collecting Bottas in an overtaking dive and cause a SC? Could Williams have benefitted from that and actually come close to a point perhaps even grab one?

It was a poor decision and embarassing, really.

When will the head start to roll? That of Claire, obviously? How much longer must this go on? Untill the team is done for thanks to the spoiled brat that was born into a golden potty and throne established by the hard and capable work of Frank Williams and Patrick Head? That's what she single handedly did and still keeps doing (destroy this legendary team).

Williams needs to ditch Claire, she needs to step back, and somebody capable needs to step in.

Just look at Mclaren for example. Bouillier was the wrong person and would have brought the team further down the grid. Zak Brown's presence and especially that of Seidl, have turned things the right way around for Mclaren and look what is going on.

Imagine that it would have been Zak Brown and Seidl @ Williams instead of Mclaren. I am without doubt it would have went down much better.

Instead, i'm wondering whether we'll be seeing Claire in her usual destructive mode announce a partnership with Rich energy for 2020 and then getting the black-and gold livery with some BS political correct nonsense.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

marmer
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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I am beginning to think caltenborn wasn't that bad in comparison

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izzy
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Williams' Team Principal is Frank, not Claire, just sayin, and he's still around, even getting involved in the car I was reading last winter

gshevlin
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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I would not be surprised if Orlen and Kubica are gone from the car soon, and Williams puts Latifi in for the last few races. Better to give the next driver some seat time and release an unhappy driver and his sponsor.

marmer
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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gshevlin wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:19 am
I would not be surprised if Orlen and Kubica are gone from the car soon, and Williams puts Latifi in for the last few races. Better to give the next driver some seat time and release an unhappy driver and his sponsor.
I suspect there would be some huge financial punishment for doing so or they would have done it already. Kubica and his sponsor are not thick they would have put something in place to stop him from being easy to drop mid season

netoperek
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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marmer wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:52 am
gshevlin wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:19 am
I would not be surprised if Orlen and Kubica are gone from the car soon, and Williams puts Latifi in for the last few races. Better to give the next driver some seat time and release an unhappy driver and his sponsor.
I suspect there would be some huge financial punishment for doing so or they would have done it already. Kubica and his sponsor are not thick they would have put something in place to stop him from being easy to drop mid season
I've read somewhere, though it was totally a rumor type of text, that "unnamed person from the inside" said it's exactly what they were trying to do most of the season, but that single point Kubica got, ruined their plans. Plan was simple - force a massive performance difference on George's favour to kick Kubica out on performance clause, keeping sponsorship cash and getting new cash from someone else. Even though that is what seems much of current Williams style, I though it was just a speculation.
By the way, it would seem that after that point gathered by Rob, they should try to support him more, unfortunately they still don't :(

netoperek
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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fresh update on the cause of George's crash. Officially from Williams: Improperly mounted wheel nut on right front caused improper settling of the wheel and caused a lock up on the braking. Those parts are old and tested designes, so team will now inspect if it was a human error or a manufacturing problem.
There's also another confirmation on why they retired Robert - too much damage in Singapore and Russia made them concerned they won't have enough parts to finish overseas races.
Hmm who got his spares number shrink on these two races? :-k

Edit: They should be extremally thankful for what caliber of drivers they have. If it was Grojean for example, they would have ran out of parts by Monaco at the most! :twisted:

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izzy
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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netoperek wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:30 am
I've read somewhere, though it was totally a rumor type of text, that "unnamed person from the inside" said it's exactly what they were trying to do most of the season, but that single point Kubica got, ruined their plans. Plan was simple - force a massive performance difference on George's favour to kick Kubica out on performance clause, keeping sponsorship cash and getting new cash from someone else. Even though that is what seems much of current Williams style, I though it was just a speculation.
lol there are some crazy wild theories from a very small number of insane Polish head cases! #-o

it's just speculation with no evidence because nobody would sign a ridiculous contract like that and nothing would've been better for Williams than a Robert Kubica success story

netoperek
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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izzy wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:48 am
netoperek wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:30 am
I've read somewhere, though it was totally a rumor type of text, that "unnamed person from the inside" said it's exactly what they were trying to do most of the season, but that single point Kubica got, ruined their plans. Plan was simple - force a massive performance difference on George's favour to kick Kubica out on performance clause, keeping sponsorship cash and getting new cash from someone else. Even though that is what seems much of current Williams style, I though it was just a speculation.
lol there are some crazy wild theories from a very small number of insane Polish head cases! #-o

it's just speculation with no evidence because nobody would sign a ridiculous contract like that and nothing would've been better for Williams than a Robert Kubica success story
Funny thing it has been an English site IIRC (can't find that article now sadly, it was a while back ago :( ). What is most concerning is that it sounds less nonsensical than it should, because of somethimes completely insane actions by Williams

marmer
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Well when it comes to rumours like that you got to look at it in a realistic way to figure out if they might be some truth in it.
Why from the start of the year would they try and drop Robert. Unless they had another driver lined up who was willing to pay more than him. Because essentially it's not about driver ability as the car isn't near enough the back of the gird for that to matter.

By all accounts serotkin didn't fancy it or couldn't get the money together to stay at Williams. Latif didn't have the super license points unless I am wrong about this.
And mid way into a season with the cat where it is who would want that drive anyway.
By all accounts Williams didn't take kubica on without major funds. So he was probably the biggest payer for his seat and they took him.

So they take the biggest check they are going to get for that seat and sack him. Anyone coming in after knows Williams are desperate for a driver and could play Hardball leading Williams to having less money than they had before. I don't get any logic in dropping Robert mid season. Even if he was slow it's not like in actuality the car is any good. And he hasn't cost the team much money in terms of big accidents

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izzy
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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netoperek wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:09 am
Funny thing it has been an English site IIRC (can't find that article now sadly, it was a while back ago :( ). What is most concerning is that it sounds less nonsensical than it should, because of somethimes completely insane actions by Williams
Well there are plenty of insane Brits of course but nobody signed a contract where a team can sack their driver for performance and keep the money

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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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I don't think they would have any problem putting a pay driver in the seat. It is after all a F1 drive and if nothing else keeps your licence up to date.
There are many who would pay, even if it was not what comes with RK, but few would have the knowledge and experience he brings.
Possibly Williams just mis calculated how far off the pace he is and now want to drop him, but what would they gain not letting him complete the season with the best record he can get, which is also the team record for when there is countback.

As for bringing in a new manager, as Izzy says, Frank is still the man in charge, what ever his title, and if you read work by past Williams Drivers and staff, he can be a challenge, which may be the reason Clair is still doing the job not a hotshot. .
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

marmer
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:07 pm
I don't think they would have any problem putting a pay driver in the seat. It is after all a F1 drive and if nothing else keeps your licence up to date.
There are many who would pay, even if it was not what comes with RK, but few would have the knowledge and experience he brings.
Possibly Williams just mis calculated how far off the pace he is and now want to drop him, but what would they gain not letting him complete the season with the best record he can get, which is also the team record for when there is countback.

As for bringing in a new manager, as Izzy says, Frank is still the man in charge, what ever his title, and if you read work by past Williams Drivers and staff, he can be a challenge, which may be the reason Clair is still doing the job not a hotshot. .
so who else could they have got that had a currently active super license and more cash than robert

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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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marmer wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:54 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:07 pm
I don't think they would have any problem putting a pay driver in the seat. It is after all a F1 drive and if nothing else keeps your licence up to date.
There are many who would pay, even if it was not what comes with RK, but few would have the knowledge and experience he brings.
Possibly Williams just mis calculated how far off the pace he is and now want to drop him, but what would they gain not letting him complete the season with the best record he can get, which is also the team record for when there is countback.

As for bringing in a new manager, as Izzy says, Frank is still the man in charge, what ever his title, and if you read work by past Williams Drivers and staff, he can be a challenge, which may be the reason Clair is still doing the job not a hotshot. .
so who else could they have got that had a currently active super license and more cash than robert
Thats why I said ~even if it was not what comes with RK~ but there are those who would pay just for practice etc to get the qualification or to keep the licence up to date as they expire.
There is a list here, but not sure how current it is.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions