2019 Renault F1 Team

[ispano6]

Yeah...losing RBR has nothing to do with this. Their new benchmark is McLaren. To be sucessful they need to be matching McLaren at a minimum.

Its still early, new regs and all.

Not true, wooing Ricciardo away from Red Bull was one of Renaults aim at getting information about RBs cars and operational tactics. It's probably more so that Renault is finding Ricciardo isn't as helpful in making their car closer to RBs. Maybe they feel now his salary is too much for the value he brings.
What's clear from Ricciardo's comments is that he very much needed the RB car and engineers to set up the car the way he needed it and RS was doing all they could to mimick RBs old car characteristics.

I feel this is maybe being slightly cyncial of the situation. DR was out of contract at the time Renault were ending their partnership with RB. Renault themselves needed a driver that wasn't contracted to RB (sainz) they would of course look at the market and see what was available. They hired a driver who had won races. this is a natural development path for a team looking to win again. Loads of drivers change teams and you could say they take ideas/secrets with them but really a driver is not a designer nor an engineer. Renault's aquisition of Budowski (sp) was much more like the kind of thing you are taking about as he knew details about ALL F1 cars from his time at the FiA. Toto Wolff was very unhappy with the timing of his move. However it takes more than just 1 or 2 or 3 people to completely fix a car or make it fast - look at Paddy Lowe at Williams - he should on paper have made that team top running but didnt. Look at Ferrari - for all their resources they haven't won at all in 2019.... Look at Haas - speed in testing isnt there...
However it is clear that since race 1 some teams have developed better than Renault although Spain with its - aero dominant nature should finally give us a Pecking order for the 1st part of the season. If Renault dont make Q3 in spain then they must surely consider this year's car as not what should have been delivered.

It's not like Red Bull let DR go, though. He was more than welcome to stay, but he had his reasons. Abiteboul specifically mentioned using DR's knowledge of Red Bull and maybe the RS is getting close in behavior to the RB he's used to. Abiteboul seemed a bit critical of DR but at the same time defensive of his salary. We all complained about Budkowski going to Renault but it's a done deal so all we can do is see what he learned of other teams that Renault ends up adopting in their factory and wind-tunnel.

[PowerandtheGlory]

Not true, wooing Ricciardo away from Red Bull was one of Renaults aim at getting information about RBs cars and operational tactics. It's probably more so that Renault is finding Ricciardo isn't as helpful in making their car closer to RBs. Maybe they feel now his salary is too much for the value he brings.
What's clear from Ricciardo's comments is that he very much needed the RB car and engineers to set up the car the way he needed it and RS was doing all they could to mimick RBs old car characteristics.

I feel this is maybe being slightly cyncial of the situation. DR was out of contract at the time Renault were ending their partnership with RB. Renault themselves needed a driver that wasn't contracted to RB (sainz) they would of course look at the market and see what was available. They hired a driver who had won races. this is a natural development path for a team looking to win again. Loads of drivers change teams and you could say they take ideas/secrets with them but really a driver is not a designer nor an engineer. Renault's aquisition of Budowski (sp) was much more like the kind of thing you are taking about as he knew details about ALL F1 cars from his time at the FiA. Toto Wolff was very unhappy with the timing of his move. However it takes more than just 1 or 2 or 3 people to completely fix a car or make it fast - look at Paddy Lowe at Williams - he should on paper have made that team top running but didnt. Look at Ferrari - for all their resources they haven't won at all in 2019.... Look at Haas - speed in testing isnt there...
However it is clear that since race 1 some teams have developed better than Renault although Spain with its - aero dominant nature should finally give us a Pecking order for the 1st part of the season. If Renault dont make Q3 in spain then they must surely consider this year's car as not what should have been delivered.

It's not like Red Bull let DR go, though. He was more than welcome to stay, but he had his reasons. Abiteboul specifically mentioned using DR's knowledge of Red Bull and maybe the RS is getting close in behavior to the RB he's used to. Abiteboul seemed a bit critical of DR but at the same time defensive of his salary. We all complained about Budkowski going to Renault but it's a done deal so all we can do is see what he learned of other teams that Renault ends up adopting in their factory and wind-tunnel.

Agreed, that is a fair assesment of the situation. Hopefully renault get their act together. Or maybe use the sane wind tunnel as mclaren are using..

[diffuser]

I accept that drivers will ‘know’ what their are doing and that can mean knowing high level stuff about batteries or setup etc etc., most drivers have a contract clause that says ‘they cannot be asked by their team to do anytging illegal or bring the sport into disrepute’ as this would be more damaging to their future employments prospects.
That being said- you could extend this to 2 engineers from rival having a drink late one evening after a GP or sharing transport home from a racr or even texting each other. And one says ‘oh we had a softer rear setup to aid traction’ thats just 2 friends comparing notes after a race. It all must happen. Im sure all the drivers chat to each other on the private planes home... sending a full design of a car is of course proper cheating- but the ebb and flow of personnel between teams cant really be cheating in a pure sense.

I'm presuming that the 2 drivers are driving different cars and therefore different chassis. That also means that what works for one, the opposite might work for the other. So that information is pretty much useless. What is in the rear suspension design that allows that chassis to work with the softer setup is the KEY. THAT my friend, the driver is not likely no know.

[PowerandtheGlory]

I accept that drivers will ‘know’ what their are doing and that can mean knowing high level stuff about batteries or setup etc etc., most drivers have a contract clause that says ‘they cannot be asked by their team to do anytging illegal or bring the sport into disrepute’ as this would be more damaging to their future employments prospects.
That being said- you could extend this to 2 engineers from rival having a drink late one evening after a GP or sharing transport home from a racr or even texting each other. And one says ‘oh we had a softer rear setup to aid traction’ thats just 2 friends comparing notes after a race. It all must happen. Im sure all the drivers chat to each other on the private planes home... sending a full design of a car is of course proper cheating- but the ebb and flow of personnel between teams cant really be cheating in a pure sense.

I'm presuming that the 2 drivers are driving different cars and therefore different chassis. That also means that what works for one, the opposite might work for the other. So that information is pretty much useless. What is in the rear suspension design that allows that chassis to work with the softer setup is the KEY. THAT my friend, the driver is not likely no know.

Exactly.. if u see my previous post- driver will know, but they wont know the ins amd outs.. and like u say even if they did know detail about a car- they coukdnt just take it to another team bolt it on a go quicker.

[Mclarensenna]

I accept that drivers will ‘know’ what their are doing and that can mean knowing high level stuff about batteries or setup etc etc., most drivers have a contract clause that says ‘they cannot be asked by their team to do anytging illegal or bring the sport into disrepute’ as this would be more damaging to their future employments prospects.
That being said- you could extend this to 2 engineers from rival having a drink late one evening after a GP or sharing transport home from a racr or even texting each other. And one says ‘oh we had a softer rear setup to aid traction’ thats just 2 friends comparing notes after a race. It all must happen. Im sure all the drivers chat to each other on the private planes home... sending a full design of a car is of course proper cheating- but the ebb and flow of personnel between teams cant really be cheating in a pure sense.

I'm presuming that the 2 drivers are driving different cars and therefore different chassis. That also means that what works for one, the opposite might work for the other. So that information is pretty much useless. What is in the rear suspension design that allows that chassis to work with the softer setup is the KEY. THAT my friend, the driver is not likely no know.

Exactly.. if u see my previous post- driver will know, but they wont know the ins amd outs.. and like u say even if they did know detail about a car- they coukdnt just take it to another team bolt it on a go quicker.

I fully agree with what you are saying in regards to Ric not being an engineer.
The situation reminds me of the Mclaren with the best chassis on the grid statements. It took a switch to Renault to shake Mclaren up and now they have made massive structural/hiring changes which are finally yielding better results.
Ric is a proven race winner. Renault without Ric this year could turn around and say we have the best engine on the grid or our chassis is close and Nico is just not getting the maximum out of the car blaming the drivers.
This removes the driver as an excuse completely. Just like Mclaren removed Honda as an excuse in the 2018 "Reality Check"

Ric in the 2019 Renault "Reality Check" and can be the motivation to drive Renault to the top. Ric can tell them straight out this car is a complete piece of junk ( which i am sure has has behind the scenes) and not him nor Max or Vettel former team mates could do anything with such a slow car 2 seconds off the pace. If Ric did not join and Hulk said this then he would not be taken as seriously. Renault could turn around saying we built a top car and Hulk lost motivation or he has never been on the podium that could be the issue or similar excuses blaming the drivers. Renault now cannot blame the drivers at all and might start making massive changes to how they operate and fix the brakes, suspension, aero, balance etc which all are extremely sub par compared to his previous redbull.

This target Ric gives on the car side can lift the entire Renault team to new heights similar to what is happening now at the Mclaren chassis department.

[PowerandtheGlory]

I'm presuming that the 2 drivers are driving different cars and therefore different chassis. That also means that what works for one, the opposite might work for the other. So that information is pretty much useless. What is in the rear suspension design that allows that chassis to work with the softer setup is the KEY. THAT my friend, the driver is not likely no know.

Exactly.. if u see my previous post- driver will know, but they wont know the ins amd outs.. and like u say even if they did know detail about a car- they coukdnt just take it to another team bolt it on a go quicker.

I fully agree with what you are saying in regards to Ric not being an engineer.
The situation reminds me of the Mclaren with the best chassis on the grid statements. It took a switch to Renault to shake Mclaren up and now they have made massive structural/hiring changes which are finally yielding better results.
Ric is a proven race winner. Renault without Ric this year could turn around and say we have the best engine on the grid or our chassis is close and Nico is just not getting the maximum out of the car blaming the drivers.
This removes the driver as an excuse completely. Just like Mclaren removed Honda as an excuse in the 2018 "Reality Check"

Ric in the 2019 Renault "Reality Check" and can be the motivation to drive Renault to the top. Ric can tell them straight out this car is a complete piece of junk ( which i am sure has has behind the scenes) and not him nor Max or Vettel former team mates could do anything with such a slow car 2 seconds off the pace. If Ric did not join and Hulk said this then he would not be taken as seriously. Renault could turn around saying we built a top car and Hulk lost motivation or he has never been on the podium that could be the issue or similar excuses blaming the drivers. Renault now cannot blame the drivers at all and might start making massive changes to how they operate and fix the brakes, suspension, aero, balance etc which all are extremely sub par compared to his previous redbull.

This target Ric gives on the car side can lift the entire Renault team to new heights similar to what is happening now at the Mclaren chassis department.

Interesting, so Ric arriving was a way of getting a reality check and seeing what a current race winner from 2018 could do with the car.

McLaren have def recovered, I think the acquisition of some old (but experienced and successful heads) has helped.
Zak brown has shown his ability to re-organise the team and put in place better processes. Sadly Alonso had to go as it’s not feasible to be paying him what they were with the car they had.

Better engineers- rookies (sort of with Sainz) has pushed them up the grid. Norris seems to be an absolute Gem.

[PowerandtheGlory]

Just a final word on this off topic thing-
Russell tested for Merc during this season. I know merc and Williams are sort-of close.
But again it shows there is little chance a driver can take much from just driving a car. ..

[Mclarensenna]

Exactly.. if u see my previous post- driver will know, but they wont know the ins amd outs.. and like u say even if they did know detail about a car- they coukdnt just take it to another team bolt it on a go quicker.

I fully agree with what you are saying in regards to Ric not being an engineer.
The situation reminds me of the Mclaren with the best chassis on the grid statements. It took a switch to Renault to shake Mclaren up and now they have made massive structural/hiring changes which are finally yielding better results.
Ric is a proven race winner. Renault without Ric this year could turn around and say we have the best engine on the grid or our chassis is close and Nico is just not getting the maximum out of the car blaming the drivers.
This removes the driver as an excuse completely. Just like Mclaren removed Honda as an excuse in the 2018 "Reality Check"

Ric in the 2019 Renault "Reality Check" and can be the motivation to drive Renault to the top. Ric can tell them straight out this car is a complete piece of junk ( which i am sure has has behind the scenes) and not him nor Max or Vettel former team mates could do anything with such a slow car 2 seconds off the pace. If Ric did not join and Hulk said this then he would not be taken as seriously. Renault could turn around saying we built a top car and Hulk lost motivation or he has never been on the podium that could be the issue or similar excuses blaming the drivers. Renault now cannot blame the drivers at all and might start making massive changes to how they operate and fix the brakes, suspension, aero, balance etc which all are extremely sub par compared to his previous redbull.

This target Ric gives on the car side can lift the entire Renault team to new heights similar to what is happening now at the Mclaren chassis department.

Interesting, so Ric arriving was a way of getting a reality check and seeing what a current race winner from 2018 could do with the car.

McLaren have def recovered, I think the acquisition of some old (but experienced and successful heads) has helped.
Zak brown has shown his ability to re-organise the team and put in place better processes. Sadly Alonso had to go as it’s not feasible to be paying him what they were with the car they had.

Better engineers- rookies (sort of with Sainz) has pushed them up the grid. Norris seems to be an absolute Gem.

"McLaren have def recovered,"
Mclaren was 2 to 2.5 seconds off the pace last year of Redbull with the same engine. This year they are 1.5 seconds or so off the pace it seems. They have definately improved with the changes this year after the 2018 reality check, but Mclaren still have a long way to go to create a top class chassis like Redbull.

[sn809]

The Budkowski effect is for 2020 guys, what are you on about!!!!!

[selvam_e2002]

It seems even with Honda Engine RB are proceeding good race results. The credit should go to Newly. I don't think Renault can produce similar car in 2019 nor in 2020. I hope they can come back strongly after 2021 rule change. It will give them a chance.....to win races with Nico and Ric if they still around.

[diffuser]

Exactly.. if u see my previous post- driver will know, but they wont know the ins amd outs.. and like u say even if they did know detail about a car- they coukdnt just take it to another team bolt it on a go quicker.

I fully agree with what you are saying in regards to Ric not being an engineer.
The situation reminds me of the Mclaren with the best chassis on the grid statements. It took a switch to Renault to shake Mclaren up and now they have made massive structural/hiring changes which are finally yielding better results.
Ric is a proven race winner. Renault without Ric this year could turn around and say we have the best engine on the grid or our chassis is close and Nico is just not getting the maximum out of the car blaming the drivers.
This removes the driver as an excuse completely. Just like Mclaren removed Honda as an excuse in the 2018 "Reality Check"

Ric in the 2019 Renault "Reality Check" and can be the motivation to drive Renault to the top. Ric can tell them straight out this car is a complete piece of junk ( which i am sure has has behind the scenes) and not him nor Max or Vettel former team mates could do anything with such a slow car 2 seconds off the pace. If Ric did not join and Hulk said this then he would not be taken as seriously. Renault could turn around saying we built a top car and Hulk lost motivation or he has never been on the podium that could be the issue or similar excuses blaming the drivers. Renault now cannot blame the drivers at all and might start making massive changes to how they operate and fix the brakes, suspension, aero, balance etc which all are extremely sub par compared to his previous redbull.

This target Ric gives on the car side can lift the entire Renault team to new heights similar to what is happening now at the Mclaren chassis department.

Interesting, so Ric arriving was a way of getting a reality check and seeing what a current race winner from 2018 could do with the car.

McLaren have def recovered, I think the acquisition of some old (but experienced and successful heads) has helped.
Zak brown has shown his ability to re-organise the team and put in place better processes. Sadly Alonso had to go as it’s not feasible to be paying him what they were with the car they had.

Better engineers- rookies (sort of with Sainz) has pushed them up the grid. Norris seems to be an absolute Gem.

McLaren offered Ricardo Close to what they were Paying Alonso. So they don't believe that to be true.

No Sure who at Renault believed the problem was the drivers last year. I never heard it, nor would I have believed it.

[SmallSoldier]

I fully agree with what you are saying in regards to Ric not being an engineer.
The situation reminds me of the Mclaren with the best chassis on the grid statements. It took a switch to Renault to shake Mclaren up and now they have made massive structural/hiring changes which are finally yielding better results.
Ric is a proven race winner. Renault without Ric this year could turn around and say we have the best engine on the grid or our chassis is close and Nico is just not getting the maximum out of the car blaming the drivers.
This removes the driver as an excuse completely. Just like Mclaren removed Honda as an excuse in the 2018 "Reality Check"

Ric in the 2019 Renault "Reality Check" and can be the motivation to drive Renault to the top. Ric can tell them straight out this car is a complete piece of junk ( which i am sure has has behind the scenes) and not him nor Max or Vettel former team mates could do anything with such a slow car 2 seconds off the pace. If Ric did not join and Hulk said this then he would not be taken as seriously. Renault could turn around saying we built a top car and Hulk lost motivation or he has never been on the podium that could be the issue or similar excuses blaming the drivers. Renault now cannot blame the drivers at all and might start making massive changes to how they operate and fix the brakes, suspension, aero, balance etc which all are extremely sub par compared to his previous redbull.

This target Ric gives on the car side can lift the entire Renault team to new heights similar to what is happening now at the Mclaren chassis department.

Interesting, so Ric arriving was a way of getting a reality check and seeing what a current race winner from 2018 could do with the car.

McLaren have def recovered, I think the acquisition of some old (but experienced and successful heads) has helped.
Zak brown has shown his ability to re-organise the team and put in place better processes. Sadly Alonso had to go as it’s not feasible to be paying him what they were with the car they had.

Better engineers- rookies (sort of with Sainz) has pushed them up the grid. Norris seems to be an absolute Gem.

McLaren offered Ricardo Close to what they were Paying Alonso. So they don't believe that to be true.

No Sure who at Renault believed the problem was the drivers last year. I never heard it, nor would I have believed it.

That’s a first... I haven’t read anywhere that Mclaren offered Daniel anywhere near close to what Alonso was making.

The Renault offer was by large that biggest one in terms of salary of the 3 offers he had (RBR, Mclaren, Renault).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[trinidefender]

Interesting, so Ric arriving was a way of getting a reality check and seeing what a current race winner from 2018 could do with the car.

McLaren have def recovered, I think the acquisition of some old (but experienced and successful heads) has helped.
Zak brown has shown his ability to re-organise the team and put in place better processes. Sadly Alonso had to go as it’s not feasible to be paying him what they were with the car they had.

Better engineers- rookies (sort of with Sainz) has pushed them up the grid. Norris seems to be an absolute Gem.

McLaren offered Ricardo Close to what they were Paying Alonso. So they don't believe that to be true.

No Sure who at Renault believed the problem was the drivers last year. I never heard it, nor would I have believed it.

That’s a first... I haven’t read anywhere that Mclaren offered Daniel anywhere near close to what Alonso was making.

The Renault offer was by large that biggest one in terms of salary of the 3 offers he had (RBR, Mclaren, Renault).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm fairly sure that I read in quite a few places that the Renault offer was less than the RBR offer. That he left RBR for reasons of principle, one of which was on finding out that Max got paid a lot more than he did, DR asked to be matched to Max's salary and RBR refused so he left.

Don't have any information on how much McLaren offered him.

[Capharol]

McLaren offered Ricardo Close to what they were Paying Alonso. So they don't believe that to be true.

No Sure who at Renault believed the problem was the drivers last year. I never heard it, nor would I have believed it.

That’s a first... I haven’t read anywhere that Mclaren offered Daniel anywhere near close to what Alonso was making.

The Renault offer was by large that biggest one in terms of salary of the 3 offers he had (RBR, Mclaren, Renault).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm fairly sure that I read in quite a few places that the Renault offer was less than the RBR offer. That he left RBR for reasons of principle, one of which was on finding out that Max got paid a lot more than he did, DR asked to be matched to Max's salary and RBR refused so he left.

Don't have any information on how much McLaren offered him.

not quite right either, RB gave him everything he asked for, 2 year contract with option to leave after 1 if the Honda didn't gave what they promised, no driver at RB would get #1 status, he even became the salary he asked for....
He backed out of this offer because his doubt due to the Honda PU and partially the feeling RB would favor Verstappen, then the offer of Renault came, which made him more comfortable because he (thought) he knew what he had with Renault (PU wise at least)....
that's one of the reasons why you don't hear RIC speaking negative of Renault (which Verstappen and RB did) in the races after the summerbreak.

[Capharol]

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/05/02 ... rix+247%29

title speaks for itselfs i think