2019 Renault F1 Team

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:22 am
How is Cyril still there. He has missed every single target in the last 5 years.
Last year he was going to make redbull regret switching to Honda.
Renault was the team who threatened to quit if we did not switch to a hybrid engine in 2014.
Yet in the 6th year they are still massively down on power and reliability is still worse than Mercedes reliability in their 1st year in 2014.
The engine is a hand grenade still.

Ric had siginficant damage after being hit from behind according to cyril which was costing him half a second per lap. B stillut what in the world happened to the strategists in Spa. An entire race on 1 set of tyres?
A 5 year old kid could see Ric was losing 2 seconds lap by not pitting which only increased at the end when the tyres fell off the cliff.
Pirelli never said these tyres can do an entire race.
The data showed it was a much slower strategy trying to do an entire race on 1 set of tyres.
How could Renault strategists with all the data and supercomputers available keep Ric out when a 5 year old kid see it made no sense.

Renault board needs to fire Cyril immediately and bring in somebody who can make some proper changes to this team.
Renault F1 are a complete disaster and need serious changes
Pretty certain they were using Ricardo to slow everyone and give Hulk a chance to get into the points.Think the damage Ricciardo go was to seveer to do anything else.

Mclarensenna
Mclarensenna
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:20 am
Mclarensenna wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:22 am
How is Cyril still there. He has missed every single target in the last 5 years.
Last year he was going to make redbull regret switching to Honda.
Renault was the team who threatened to quit if we did not switch to a hybrid engine in 2014.
Yet in the 6th year they are still massively down on power and reliability is still worse than Mercedes reliability in their 1st year in 2014.
The engine is a hand grenade still.

Ric had siginficant damage after being hit from behind according to cyril which was costing him half a second per lap. B stillut what in the world happened to the strategists in Spa. An entire race on 1 set of tyres?
A 5 year old kid could see Ric was losing 2 seconds lap by not pitting which only increased at the end when the tyres fell off the cliff.
Pirelli never said these tyres can do an entire race.
The data showed it was a much slower strategy trying to do an entire race on 1 set of tyres.
How could Renault strategists with all the data and supercomputers available keep Ric out when a 5 year old kid see it made no sense.

Renault board needs to fire Cyril immediately and bring in somebody who can make some proper changes to this team.
Renault F1 are a complete disaster and need serious changes
Pretty certain they were using Ricardo to slow everyone and give Hulk a chance to get into the points.Think the damage Ricciardo go was to seveer to do anything else.
Interesting theory. Did they also blow up Norris's engine on the last lap?

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Jambier
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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One of the few race were Renault had a good pace (.5 to Max in qualy)

It was definitely not a race to take penalties, as they could have score good points.

But as always, nothing is going well at Renault.
So sad to see the team like this when you are a fan.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:33 am
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:32 pm
Not looking for an argument, but what options does Ricciardo have? None really.
He has the best seat he is likely to get.
:roll:

Ricciardo may be welcome at Red Bull (depending on how excellent Albon is and if Verstappen leaves), and he could also go to Ferrari to replace Vettel (the most likely since Giovanazzi is not good enough to be promoted to Ferrari's A-team at all, and Schumacher is not good enough to be promoted to Ferrari's A-team yet).

There is also an outside chance that Ricciardo could be picked by Mercedes to mentor Russell, assuming Hamilton retires.
The only drives worth him taking are Merc, Ferrari and Red Bull (as you say) but ..
I cannot see him going back to Red Bull while Max is there, otherwise he would not have left.
I can not see him going to Ferrari for the same reason, but more so than being with Max.
Mercedes? Bottas has a new multi-year contract, and I really can not see Hamilton leaving for the same reasons I cannot see Ricciardo going to the other worthwhile seats.

Renault, Mclaren and possibly Haas or Racing point are his options. Mclaren and RP are set for the foreseeable future,
which leaves only Haas. I think the Renault seat if far preferable to Haas as is the payment.

He seems to have mis-timed his options.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

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Jambier
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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I see no reason why he can't go to Ferrari in 2021

They will have to replace VET.
Ric is the best option for that

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Capharol
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:32 pm
I see no reason why he can't go to Ferrari in 2021

They will have to replace VET.
Ric is the best option for that
because Ric doesn't wanna play second fiddle to anyone, and Ferrari is now Leclerc-world (certainly after the teamorder yesterday and the win from him).
IF Ricciardo wanted to play "wingman" he could have stayed with RB.
Last edited by Capharol on Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:32 pm
I see no reason why he can't go to Ferrari in 2021

They will have to replace VET.
Ric is the best option for that
He left RBR as Max was going to be golden boy. By 2021 LeClerk will be 2 years in and well established as the 'main man' even if not de facto No1.

Possible, he went to RBR when Seb was king.

2021 Renault may re emerge as in the top group
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

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Jambier
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:41 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:32 pm
I see no reason why he can't go to Ferrari in 2021

They will have to replace VET.
Ric is the best option for that
He left RBR as Max was going to be golden boy. By 2021 LeClerk will be 2 years in and well established as the 'main man' even if not de facto No1.

Possible, he went to RBR when Seb was king.

2021 Renault may re emerge as in the top group
Top group ?
If you mean top of the midfield or best of the rest, why not.

Fighting to win, no chance

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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:43 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:41 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:32 pm
I see no reason why he can't go to Ferrari in 2021

They will have to replace VET.
Ric is the best option for that
He left RBR as Max was going to be golden boy. By 2021 LeClerk will be 2 years in and well established as the 'main man' even if not de facto No1.

Possible, he went to RBR when Seb was king.

2021 Renault may re emerge as in the top group
Top group ?
If you mean top of the midfield or best of the rest, why not.

Fighting to win, no chance
Well they have won championships before, and two years is a long time.
Ric and Ocon, get the right man in managing and the top 3 could become top 4. Or even 5 if Mclaren step up
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:24 am
diffuser wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:20 am
Mclarensenna wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:22 am
How is Cyril still there. He has missed every single target in the last 5 years.
Last year he was going to make redbull regret switching to Honda.
Renault was the team who threatened to quit if we did not switch to a hybrid engine in 2014.
Yet in the 6th year they are still massively down on power and reliability is still worse than Mercedes reliability in their 1st year in 2014.
The engine is a hand grenade still.

Ric had siginficant damage after being hit from behind according to cyril which was costing him half a second per lap. B stillut what in the world happened to the strategists in Spa. An entire race on 1 set of tyres?
A 5 year old kid could see Ric was losing 2 seconds lap by not pitting which only increased at the end when the tyres fell off the cliff.
Pirelli never said these tyres can do an entire race.
The data showed it was a much slower strategy trying to do an entire race on 1 set of tyres.
How could Renault strategists with all the data and supercomputers available keep Ric out when a 5 year old kid see it made no sense.

Renault board needs to fire Cyril immediately and bring in somebody who can make some proper changes to this team.
Renault F1 are a complete disaster and need serious changes
Pretty certain they were using Ricardo to slow everyone and give Hulk a chance to get into the points.Think the damage Ricciardo go was to seveer to do anything else.
Interesting theory. Did they also blow up Norris's engine on the last lap?
I didn't say I agreed with the theory or it was working well. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
:D

dxpetrov
dxpetrov
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Capharol wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:38 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:32 pm
I see no reason why he can't go to Ferrari in 2021

They will have to replace VET.
Ric is the best option for that
because Ric doesn't wanna play second fiddle to anyone, and Ferrari is now Leclerc-world (certainly after the teamorder yesterday and the win from him).
IF Ricciardo wanted to play "wingman" he could have stayed with RB.
If he didn't want to be the wingman in RB - he should have driven better. He saw that he's not capable to beat Max and his natural progression in RB was to become a 2nd driver, therefore he chose to rejuvenate his career and start with clean sheet with another team.

drunkf1fan
drunkf1fan
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:37 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:43 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:41 pm


He left RBR as Max was going to be golden boy. By 2021 LeClerk will be 2 years in and well established as the 'main man' even if not de facto No1.

Possible, he went to RBR when Seb was king.

2021 Renault may re emerge as in the top group
Top group ?
If you mean top of the midfield or best of the rest, why not.

Fighting to win, no chance
Well they have won championships before, and two years is a long time.
Ric and Ocon, get the right man in managing and the top 3 could become top 4. Or even 5 if Mclaren step up
Two years is actually a very short amount of time. There is more than just the right manager, he needs the right engineers, the right team in place. If they brought a new guy in now, it would take him most of the year to learn the team and who needs replacing, identifying targets and bringing them in around their existing contracts. At best a newer team could build a new 2021 car but in reality that new team needs time to gel, to get on the same page, to make a car or two and evolve it into something competitive.

People often mistake MErcedes as just making a great 2014 car out of nowhere but in reality they made a awesome 2013 car with one flaw and they fixed that flaw for 2014. Lowe has said several times the 2013 car was a bigger step than the 2014 car, revolution vs evolution I think he put it.

You need a few years of learning to make a great car together before you can actually make a great car. I think the chance of Renault making a remotely competitive car in 2021 are extremely low. If they fired Cyril now and got in a top team boss (and who is even available with Vasseur at Sauber), it would still be probably 2023 before they might be competitive.

Even then it's an issue, the budget cap is going to work massively against Renault, while they push hard for it. Merc/Ferrari/RBR are testing 2021 concept cars, learning what they can, doing runs in wind tunnels and putting entire teams to work spending millions a year getting ready for 2021. Renault barely have the budget to make next years car strong.

We'll go into 2021 with a potential budget cap and lets say it's enforced and Renault can now have a similar effective budget. Well the top 3 teams spent 300-400million building their 2021 car and millions extra in 2019/20 doing R&D on the project. Renault now spent 180-200mil on the 2021 car, hit a budget cap and now have to compete with vastly more expensively researched/built cars with no chance to 'catch up'. Without a budget cap if they had 200mil they could increase spending and start to match them. With a budget cap to me it just limits their ability to catch up. In reality they needed a budget cap in place 2 years before a new regulation period to prevent this and as such it's the next new regulation period after 2021 in which the budget cap might level the playing field.

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Jambier
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Agreed with everything.
And in addition:

- Renault condition to just stay in F1 is auto financing the team
- That's why they push for budget cap and better money distribution

Current strategy for Abiteboul is just to make the team exist.
Otherwise they 'll end F1 program by the end of 2020

They had a deal with Ecclestone and big binus if they win world title before end of 2020 but of course this will not happen.

So the plan is for Abiteboul and Renault:

- Finish upgrading Enstone / Viry
- Engine freeze 2021
- Budget Cap 2021
- Gains redistribution 2021
- Auto financed F1 team 2021

Then they can stay on long term, and try win something.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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dxpetrov wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:59 am
If he didn't want to be the wingman in RB - he should have driven better. He saw that he's not capable to beat Max and his natural progression in RB was to become a 2nd driver,
I must disagree. A team can have two good drivers. If one is slightly more good, that doesn't mean the other is a "wingman". That only applies when there is a large difference in ability.

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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dxpetrov wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:59 am
Capharol wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:38 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:32 pm
I see no reason why he can't go to Ferrari in 2021

They will have to replace VET.
Ric is the best option for that
because Ric doesn't wanna play second fiddle to anyone, and Ferrari is now Leclerc-world (certainly after the teamorder yesterday and the win from him).
IF Ricciardo wanted to play "wingman" he could have stayed with RB.
If he didn't want to be the wingman in RB - he should have driven better. He saw that he's not capable to beat Max and his natural progression in RB was to become a 2nd driver, therefore he chose to rejuvenate his career and start with clean sheet with another team.
I don't think his problem was being a wingman or a "team" player. He felt he was playing 2nd fiddle to Max. Plus money plus plus plus.

So I don't think LeClerc would be an impediment. I also think that since Renault have Jettisoned Hulk, Ricciardo has agreed to stay with Renault.