2019 Renault F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
saviour stivala
-15
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by saviour stivala » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:10 am

Greg_OR wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:22 am
diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:30 pm
Agree, this doesn't make the car any faster. Just gives the drivers one less thing to do.
But if the system is bit more complicated and can adjust brake balance while braking in to the corner?
This would be something other drivers cant do, but could it make any gains?, maybe in some specific long corners?
What you think?
If proved the system adjusts brake balance for the driver it will automatically be classified as a drivers aid among others.

gshevlin
8
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by gshevlin » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:46 am

A couple of comments.
1. I doubt that any driver told the FIA or another team about the system (or whatever it is). After all, when Nelson Piquet Jr. finally confessed to being asked to crash in Singapore, although he ended up winning a lot of money from Renault after they libelled him and his father, the whole Crashgate affair ended his time in Formula 1.
I suspect that another team has reported the behavior of the car and drivers to the FIA.
2. The performance benefit of the system, based on the explanations i have read so far, is pretty minimal over an entire race distance. This is not like the (so far not publicly explained) power boost that Ferrari seems to be able to deploy on occasion on race weekends, which clearly has given it a significant advantage, an advantage that has all rival engine suppliers very frustrated. (I suspect that they know WHAT Ferrari is doing, they just don't understand how they are able to do it).

FW17
226
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by FW17 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:07 am

Greg_OR wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:22 am
diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:30 pm
Agree, this doesn't make the car any faster. Just gives the drivers one less thing to do.
But if the system is bit more complicated and can adjust brake balance while braking in to the corner?
This would be something other drivers cant do, but could it make any gains?, maybe in some specific long corners?
What you think?
Changing bias during the entry phase of a corner was allowed in the past. Maybe it still is. The bias used to change from front to rear during the braking phase. In those years it was used to change the aero balance of the car. Now with FRIC and more advanced suspension systems, this may be dated.

diffuser
168
User avatar
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:51 am

gshevlin wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:46 am
A couple of comments.
1. I doubt that any driver told the FIA or another team about the system (or whatever it is). After all, when Nelson Piquet Jr. finally confessed to being asked to crash in Singapore, although he ended up winning a lot of money from Renault after they libelled him and his father, the whole Crashgate affair ended his time in Formula 1.
I suspect that another team has reported the behavior of the car and drivers to the FIA.
2. The performance benefit of the system, based on the explanations i have read so far, is pretty minimal over an entire race distance. This is not like the (so far not publicly explained) power boost that Ferrari seems to be able to deploy on occasion on race weekends, which clearly has given it a significant advantage, an advantage that has all rival engine suppliers very frustrated. (I suspect that they know WHAT Ferrari is doing, they just don't understand how they are able to do it).
Agreed on 1.


On agreed 2 as well.

On Greg_OR that not what's being reported ...

My understanding with Ferrari is they're not deploying any more power. Just longer. That doesn't mean what they're doing is illegal.

One of my pet peives of the current regs is they promote the Power development from a ICE perspective but not the MGU-K. The MGU-K power output is locked down. Things are a changing though.

JRindt
2
User avatar
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by JRindt » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:22 pm

diffuser wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:51 am

One of my pet peives of the current regs is they promote the Power development from a ICE perspective but not the MGU-K. The MGU-K power output is locked down. Things are a changing though.
What do you mean? Do the new regs open up development on the MGU-K?
If so, that partly explains McLaren’s decision to switch to Mercedes PU. Renault have had a lot of problems with the K.

diffuser
168
User avatar
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:59 pm

JRindt wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:22 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:51 am

One of my pet peives of the current regs is they promote the Power development from a ICE perspective but not the MGU-K. The MGU-K power output is locked down. Things are a changing though.
What do you mean? Do the new regs open up development on the MGU-K?
If so, that partly explains McLaren’s decision to switch to Mercedes PU. Renault have had a lot of problems with the K.
I was reffering to this story. It shows a start of a shift of mindset.

https://f1i.com/news/357150-abniteboul- ... gines.html

Juzh
417
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by Juzh » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:39 pm

Renault thrown out of Japanese Grand Prix result

https://www.racefans.net/2019/10/23/ren ... ix-result/

MtthsMlw
678
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:38 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by MtthsMlw » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:42 pm

Full document here:
https://www.fia.com/news/decisions-prot ... grand-prix

Interestingly not a breach of the technical regulations but of the sporting ones.
Also RP just pointed out that the brake balance indicator on the steering wheel changed without driver input :lol:

gshevlin
8
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by gshevlin » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:38 pm

I wonder how long it will be before teams start to introduce audio annunciators into the headset circuit, so as to take visual indicators off the steering wheel, where they can be seen by in-car cameras.

Jolle
157
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by Jolle » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:48 pm

What might be most striking with this exclusion of the Renault team, is the absence of fans who defend the team. For pete’s sake, it’s a world championship winning team and no one is offering some fact free support? Renault still has a long way to go....

bjpower
2
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by bjpower » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:03 am

From what is said in the press. The system itself was fairly complicated and not just an auto brake bias system. Which indicates it's integrated into some other system. While the benefits may be small as some people have said. ripping it out could cause a big performance loss assuming it impacts whatever it's integrated with.

gokarter
-21
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:30 am

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by gokarter » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:18 am

Shame Renault got caught . Ferrari on the other hand cheat with the engine power . FIA knows it but does nothing. This sport is ruined by ferrari politics

djos
121
User avatar
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by djos » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:31 am

Jolle wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:48 pm
What might be most striking with this exclusion of the Renault team, is the absence of fans who defend the team. For pete’s sake, it’s a world championship winning team and no one is offering some fact free support? Renault still has a long way to go....
It's a fascinating read:
there is no conclusive video evidence
RP could not produce any conclusive video evidence
The brake balance indicated on the dash display may change due to the specific operation of a specific Renault system
Renault does not dispute the possibility of a change of brake bias on the dash display without the drivers physical input
based on allegations from a former Renault employee who was not aware of all the pertinent details of Renaults brake control system.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Jambier
4
User avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:02 am
Location: France

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by Jambier » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:44 am

So it's legal.
But no according to sporting regulation.

Since this is the Renault, they can exclude them for this race, making the final result even more a joke...

Well done FIA

djos
121
User avatar
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by djos » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:45 am

Jambier wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:44 am
So it's legal.
But no according to sporting regulation.

Since this is the Renault, they can exclude them for this race, making the final result even more a joke...

Well done FIA
Not kidding, this is like the BS TMD ban using "safety" as a smokescreen, because it was legal according to the tech regs. #-o
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.