2019 Renault F1 Team

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Mclarensenna
Mclarensenna
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:24 am
Jambier wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:54 am

I am much more afraid of the chassis....

Pat Fry and the chassis team will have to work on 2021 starting now
If Renault can simply fix the
aero flaws of the 2019, they should find a lot of performance simply by getting their existing aero concept to work properly, just as McLaren did between 2018 and 2019.

The wind tunnel recalibration sounds promising, and should get the aero team on the right track to getting accurate correlations.

As to the 2021 car... Of course Renault will be full steam ahead to try to do a Brawn 2009. :) 2021 CFD time is unlimited AFAIK, however processing power is CV restricted.

Regardless, Renault’s goal will to be arrive at Melbourne 2021 with the most highly developed concept on the grid, and duly take pole and victory on the way to WDC and WCC championships. :)
You are extremely optomistic on Renault i give you that. hahahaha. Lets see as 2021 should be a huge reset. Probably the biggest in F1 history. Time will tell!

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djos
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:07 am
You make some very valid points sure.
The problem with Cyril is he is involved in a lot of the decisions that affect everything at Renault F1.
For example in 2014 the Renault engine department had 1/3 the budget, 1/3 the staff and very very old outdated equipment compared to Mercedes and Ferrari.
And he kept saying Renault is very efficient he can do more with less. So he was confident he can win and catch them. This shows complete disconnect from reality in an engine era where budget rules.

Redbull did not believe them nobody did they all said it was impossible to compete under these conditions and budget yet Cyril was so stubborn and adamant he can do it and we saw the results.
It is fantasy wishful thinking not based on reality.
He always keeps citing how Renault won in the Alonso era with less and can do it again.
He does not realise that back then it was slightly less. Figures i saw thrown around back then was 10-20% less.
So he cites this example but tries to do more with 200-300% less now.
yes Redbull can make a better chassis or similar than Merc and Ferrari with 20-30%% less if they have Newey and the best staff.
But even Newey the design genius cannot do it with 200-300% less.

Renault on top does not have a Newey or an Alison. they have inferior staff and he still thinks he can compete with superior staff with VASTLY inferior budgets.
If you listen to Cyril and everything he says the last 5 years you will see he is just not a top level manager like a Toto Wolf or a Christian Horner. The decisions he makes do not seem to make sense in my opinion and all have led to where Renault this year was struggling against a team like Torro Rosso with a vastly inferior budget and vastly inferior drivers.
Look, while I don't have a very high opinion of Cyril (he hasn't achieved anything yet in F1), under his watch Renault have been investing heavily in their F1 facilities:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/news ... -arms-race
There are two massive new CNC machines churning out parts 24/7, five rapid prototyping machines, a new gearbox dyno (£5 million of investment right there), CT scanners and the composites department has tripled in size over the last couple of years. The place has been hugely enhanced and 750 people are now working there (about double that of 2016).
This sort of catching up to the facilities already in place at Brackley, Maranello and Milton Keynes
It's pretty obvious the engine investments are starting to pay off considering how competitive Renault were at Monza. Renault are also targeting 2020 for poduims so we'll see if the chassis investments also start to pay off in a few months.

Building up an F1 team is a 3-5 year effort, you cant expect to parachute in a brilliant/charismatic leader (and I dont know if CA is either of those) and then start winning races the following season.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Mclarensenna
Mclarensenna
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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djos wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:16 am
Mclarensenna wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:07 am
You make some very valid points sure.
The problem with Cyril is he is involved in a lot of the decisions that affect everything at Renault F1.
For example in 2014 the Renault engine department had 1/3 the budget, 1/3 the staff and very very old outdated equipment compared to Mercedes and Ferrari.
And he kept saying Renault is very efficient he can do more with less. So he was confident he can win and catch them. This shows complete disconnect from reality in an engine era where budget rules.

Redbull did not believe them nobody did they all said it was impossible to compete under these conditions and budget yet Cyril was so stubborn and adamant he can do it and we saw the results.
It is fantasy wishful thinking not based on reality.
He always keeps citing how Renault won in the Alonso era with less and can do it again.
He does not realise that back then it was slightly less. Figures i saw thrown around back then was 10-20% less.
So he cites this example but tries to do more with 200-300% less now.
yes Redbull can make a better chassis or similar than Merc and Ferrari with 20-30%% less if they have Newey and the best staff.
But even Newey the design genius cannot do it with 200-300% less.

Renault on top does not have a Newey or an Alison. they have inferior staff and he still thinks he can compete with superior staff with VASTLY inferior budgets.
If you listen to Cyril and everything he says the last 5 years you will see he is just not a top level manager like a Toto Wolf or a Christian Horner. The decisions he makes do not seem to make sense in my opinion and all have led to where Renault this year was struggling against a team like Torro Rosso with a vastly inferior budget and vastly inferior drivers.
Look, while I don't have a very high opinion of Cyril (he hasn't achieved anything yet in F1), under his watch Renault have been investing heavily in their F1 facilities:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/news ... -arms-race
There are two massive new CNC machines churning out parts 24/7, five rapid prototyping machines, a new gearbox dyno (£5 million of investment right there), CT scanners and the composites department has tripled in size over the last couple of years. The place has been hugely enhanced and 750 people are now working there (about double that of 2016).
This sort of catching up to the facilities already in place at Brackley, Maranello and Milton Keynes
It's pretty obvious the engine investments are starting to pay off considering how competitive Renault were at Monza. Renault are also targeting 2020 for poduims so we'll see if the chassis investments also start to pay off in a few months.

Building up an F1 team is a 3-5 year effort, you cant expect to parachute in a brilliant/charismatic leader (and I dont know if CA is either of those) and then start winning races the following season.
My post was about Cyrils disconnect from reality thinking he could compete with 1/3 the budget, 1/3 the staff and very very old outdated equipment compared to Mercedes and Ferrari. Even regular armchair F1 fans know this is not possible but not Cyril who is supposed to be at the top of the knowledge tree.
The fact is he has always been delusional. Yes the budget and facilities are now being upgraded but only after years and years of bashing from Redbull. What every half intelligent F1 fan knew from 20 years it took Cyril years and years to understand after Redbull had to explain it to him 100 times after then proceeding to bash Renault everyday in the media. Cyril is a very very slow learner.

Cyril is delusional and always has been. Just last year he was saying he would make Redbull regret leaving and instead the only regret is from Mclaren as they too are now leaving. Cyril has now put Renault in a position where he is on the backfoot and a mountain to climb. He has no other engine data to help engine development. Mercedes thinks extra engine data is helpful hence they have so many customers. But Cyril claims it makes no difference. Again primitive thinking and i know who is wrong again. It will probably take Cyril another few years to admit yes extra engine customers do help us. yes Cyril has made a few decent decisions with grabbing Ricciardo and updating the factories sure. All the team principals even Racing point now are massively updating facilities. Any regular armchair F1 could tell you this a good idea to keep up with the latest technology and equipment. It is hardly rocket science to know this. But overall Cyril has been a massive failure, missing all his own targets for years now and is extremely delusional i am sorry to say and always has been.

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Morteza
2006
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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izzy
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Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:07 am
My post was about Cyrils disconnect from reality thinking he could compete with 1/3 the budget, 1/3 the staff and very very old outdated equipment compared to Mercedes and Ferrari. Even regular armchair F1 fans know this is not possible but not Cyril who is supposed to be at the top of the knowledge tree.
The fact is he has always been delusional. Yes the budget and facilities are now being upgraded but only after years and years of bashing from Redbull. What every half intelligent F1 fan knew from 20 years it took Cyril years and years to understand after Redbull had to explain it to him 100 times after then proceeding to bash Renault everyday in the media. Cyril is a very very slow learner.

Cyril is delusional and always has been. Just last year he was saying he would make Redbull regret leaving and instead the only regret is from Mclaren as they too are now leaving. Cyril has now put Renault in a position where he is on the backfoot and a mountain to climb. He has no other engine data to help engine development. Mercedes thinks extra engine data is helpful hence they have so many customers. But Cyril claims it makes no difference. Again primitive thinking and i know who is wrong again. It will probably take Cyril another few years to admit yes extra engine customers do help us. yes Cyril has made a few decent decisions with grabbing Ricciardo and updating the factories sure. All the team principals even Racing point now are massively updating facilities. Any regular armchair F1 could tell you this a good idea to keep up with the latest technology and equipment. It is hardly rocket science to know this. But overall Cyril has been a massive failure, missing all his own targets for years now and is extremely delusional i am sorry to say and always has been.
i don't see how we can know all this about Cyril. We just see him being interviewed, then obviously he has to say positive things, and he doesn't decide his own budget does he?

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djos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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I think he’s just decided that Cyril makes a good villain, there’s no actual insight behind it.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Mclarensenna
Mclarensenna
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:49 am

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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izzy wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:37 am
Mclarensenna wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:07 am
My post was about Cyrils disconnect from reality thinking he could compete with 1/3 the budget, 1/3 the staff and very very old outdated equipment compared to Mercedes and Ferrari. Even regular armchair F1 fans know this is not possible but not Cyril who is supposed to be at the top of the knowledge tree.
The fact is he has always been delusional. Yes the budget and facilities are now being upgraded but only after years and years of bashing from Redbull. What every half intelligent F1 fan knew from 20 years it took Cyril years and years to understand after Redbull had to explain it to him 100 times after then proceeding to bash Renault everyday in the media. Cyril is a very very slow learner.

Cyril is delusional and always has been. Just last year he was saying he would make Redbull regret leaving and instead the only regret is from Mclaren as they too are now leaving. Cyril has now put Renault in a position where he is on the backfoot and a mountain to climb. He has no other engine data to help engine development. Mercedes thinks extra engine data is helpful hence they have so many customers. But Cyril claims it makes no difference. Again primitive thinking and i know who is wrong again. It will probably take Cyril another few years to admit yes extra engine customers do help us. yes Cyril has made a few decent decisions with grabbing Ricciardo and updating the factories sure. All the team principals even Racing point now are massively updating facilities. Any regular armchair F1 could tell you this a good idea to keep up with the latest technology and equipment. It is hardly rocket science to know this. But overall Cyril has been a massive failure, missing all his own targets for years now and is extremely delusional i am sorry to say and always has been.
i don't see how we can know all this about Cyril. We just see him being interviewed, then obviously he has to say positive things, and he doesn't decide his own budget does he?
yes team managers say positive things. Look at Ross Brawn who set up mercedes to be the monster team they are now back in 2010-2013. he never stated he can win with 1/3 the budget. He told Mercedes they needed to invest big and updated the facilities etc to be able to win. Merc had the highest budget to win.
Newey was brought in by Redbull from Mclaren to win. He told them what facilcities and staff levels and budget were needed. Along with Horner and Marko they all told Dietrich what it took to win. Dietrich agreed to there plan and Redbull spent more than any other team in 2010 to win their first title. It was a realstic plan and it worked. Same as Mercs realisitic plan. Both teams showed incredible management to get to where they were dominating.

None of the F1 managers decided the budget like Cyril you are correct. F1 Managers like Horner and Newey and Marko go to Dietrich matesitcz and tell him this is what budget we need to win. We cannot win with less. That is what smart realistic managers do and it worked on both occassions as both these teams dominated the last 10 years.
Not once did Redbull or Mercedes say we can do more with much less and win.
Cyril actually has said on many many occasions he can do more with less. So obviously the Renault board believes him along with all his other failed targets. Cyril has missed all his own targets every year he has been at Renault going back to the massive arguments in 2015.

Mclarensenna
Mclarensenna
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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djos wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:41 am
I think he’s just decided that Cyril makes a good villain, there’s no actual insight behind it.
Another personal attack, this time saying I have no insight now. Was this personal attack again necessary? Please stop harassing me.

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izzy
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:54 pm
yes team managers say positive things. Look at Ross Brawn who set up mercedes to be the monster team they are now back in 2010-2013. he never stated he can win with 1/3 the budget. He told Mercedes they needed to invest big and updated the facilities etc to be able to win. Merc had the highest budget to win.
Newey was brought in by Redbull from Mclaren to win. He told them what facilcities and staff levels and budget were needed. Along with Horner and Marko they all told Dietrich what it took to win. Dietrich agreed to there plan and Redbull spent more than any other team in 2010 to win their first title. It was a realstic plan and it worked. Same as Mercs realisitic plan. Both teams showed incredible management to get to where they were dominating.

None of the F1 managers decided the budget like Cyril you are correct. F1 Managers like Horner and Newey and Marko go to Dietrich matesitcz and tell him this is what budget we need to win. We cannot win with less. That is what smart realistic managers do and it worked on both occassions as both these teams dominated the last 10 years.
Not once did Redbull or Mercedes say we can do more with much less and win.
Cyril actually has said on many many occasions he can do more with less. So obviously the Renault board believes him along with all his other failed targets. Cyril has missed all his own targets every year he has been at Renault going back to the massive arguments in 2015.
afaik when Ross sold his £1 team to Mercedes they were trying to do it with the £50m cost cap FIA were planning? then it took ages to get the Board to spend more, with Niki having to go and persuade them to spend on Lewis even. And we don't really know what Cyril and his Board have said to each other do we. Cyril has kept them in the sport, when they might have been saying like "Cyril, mon ami, do within €100m or we're pulling ze plug" or whatever and so he's hastily saying "Bien sur!! I can do it within €100m aucun probleme!!"

i mean Cyril deserves some credit imo, that Renault are still here, spending big on redoing the Lotus factory, the infrastructure and drivers, as he's the main man the Board are backing, that's more or less all we know. Personally i'm pretty sure he's not strolling into the Board meetings saying "Money? No i don't especially need any more, thanks all the same" :)

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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izzy wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:18 pm
Mclarensenna wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:54 pm
yes team managers say positive things. Look at Ross Brawn who set up mercedes to be the monster team they are now back in 2010-2013. he never stated he can win with 1/3 the budget. He told Mercedes they needed to invest big and updated the facilities etc to be able to win. Merc had the highest budget to win.
Newey was brought in by Redbull from Mclaren to win. He told them what facilcities and staff levels and budget were needed. Along with Horner and Marko they all told Dietrich what it took to win. Dietrich agreed to there plan and Redbull spent more than any other team in 2010 to win their first title. It was a realstic plan and it worked. Same as Mercs realisitic plan. Both teams showed incredible management to get to where they were dominating.

None of the F1 managers decided the budget like Cyril you are correct. F1 Managers like Horner and Newey and Marko go to Dietrich matesitcz and tell him this is what budget we need to win. We cannot win with less. That is what smart realistic managers do and it worked on both occassions as both these teams dominated the last 10 years.
Not once did Redbull or Mercedes say we can do more with much less and win.
Cyril actually has said on many many occasions he can do more with less. So obviously the Renault board believes him along with all his other failed targets. Cyril has missed all his own targets every year he has been at Renault going back to the massive arguments in 2015.
afaik when Ross sold his £1 team to Mercedes they were trying to do it with the £50m cost cap FIA were planning? then it took ages to get the Board to spend more, with Niki having to go and persuade them to spend on Lewis even. And we don't really know what Cyril and his Board have said to each other do we. Cyril has kept them in the sport, when they might have been saying like "Cyril, mon ami, do within €100m or we're pulling ze plug" or whatever and so he's hastily saying "Bien sur!! I can do it within €100m aucun probleme!!"

i mean Cyril deserves some credit imo, that Renault are still here, spending big on redoing the Lotus factory, the infrastructure and drivers, as he's the main man the Board are backing, that's more or less all we know. Personally i'm pretty sure he's not strolling into the Board meetings saying "Money? No i don't especially need any more, thanks all the same" :)
Obviously Cyril isn't delusional. He just doesn't like him. That's ok. He's allowed.

Doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. When all they can say that he's doing wrong is about what he says IMHO that's just a small part of his job.
He suffers from the same type of thing that EB did at McLaren. EB ended up being a lightening rod for everything wrong with McLaren even though he really had no fault or authority in much of it.

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izzy
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:34 pm
Obviously Cyril isn't delusional. He just doesn't like him. That's ok. He's allowed.

Doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. When all they can say that he's doing wrong is about what he says IMHO that's just a small part of his job.
He suffers from the same type of thing that EB did at McLaren. EB ended up being a lightening rod for everything wrong with McLaren even though he really had no fault or authority in much of it.
what?
Image
nobody is allowed to be wrong on the internet

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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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izzy wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:25 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:34 pm
Obviously Cyril isn't delusional. He just doesn't like him. That's ok. He's allowed.

Doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. When all they can say that he's doing wrong is about what he says IMHO that's just a small part of his job.
He suffers from the same type of thing that EB did at McLaren. EB ended up being a lightening rod for everything wrong with McLaren even though he really had no fault or authority in much of it.
what?
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6EhWIq6 ... /giphy.gif
nobody is allowed to be wrong on the internet
Can I change my log on name to nobody?
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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izzy wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:25 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:34 pm
Obviously Cyril isn't delusional. He just doesn't like him. That's ok. He's allowed.

Doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. When all they can say that he's doing wrong is about what he says IMHO that's just a small part of his job.
He suffers from the same type of thing that EB did at McLaren. EB ended up being a lightening rod for everything wrong with McLaren even though he really had no fault or authority in much of it.
what?
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6EhWIq6 ... /giphy.gif
nobody is allowed to be wrong on the internet
BTW, I didn't say he was wrong ...

Ground Effect
Ground Effect
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:39 am

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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izzy wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:25 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:34 pm
Obviously Cyril isn't delusional. He just doesn't like him. That's ok. He's allowed.

Doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. When all they can say that he's doing wrong is about what he says IMHO that's just a small part of his job.
He suffers from the same type of thing that EB did at McLaren. EB ended up being a lightening rod for everything wrong with McLaren even though he really had no fault or authority in much of it.
what?
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6EhWIq6 ... /giphy.gif
nobody is allowed to be wrong on the internet
I think “he’s allowed” refers to not liking Cyril... at least that’s what I understood from that.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

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izzy
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:29 pm
Can I change my log on name to nobody?
sure! is that Big Nobody or Nobody Tea? :)