2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Wouter
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Re: Red Bull RB15

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Finally RBR has a reliable strong Honda engine and now they have developed a bad car. I do not expect that that will change soon, because a lot has to be changed on the car. :(
STR did a better job.

You would expect the two teams to talk about their different designs together, what works well and what doesn't work well.

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB15

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Wouter wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:53 pm
Finally RBR has a reliable strong Honda engine and now they have developed a bad car. I do not expect that that will change soon, because a lot has to be changed on the car. :(
STR did a better job.
STR clearly did not do a better job, else they would have a podium and not RBR. Also official statement is that it's not a major issue, but only details. So why do you think otherwise? Gut feeling?

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Wouter
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Re: Red Bull RB15

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gandharva wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:00 pm
Wouter wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:53 pm
Finally RBR has a reliable strong Honda engine and now they have developed a bad car. I do not expect that that will change soon, because a lot has to be changed on the car. :(
STR did a better job.
STR clearly did not do a better job, else they would have a podium and not RBR. Also official statement is that it's not a major issue, but only details. So why do you think otherwise? Gut feeling?
No, no gut feeling.
You could see that they had too little downforce at the weirdest moments, and then again too much . Oversteer vs understeer. These are not small things to solve.
"Official statement is that it's not a major issue, but only details."
What else should they say ?! "It is a lot of work to get that right."
What do you think they could do to get the car right? Maybe another front wing ? Then the entire aerodynamics changes and you have to change a lot. They will never do that.

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB15

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Wouter wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:18 pm
They will never do that.
They do not need. As they said.

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Wouter
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Re: Red Bull RB15

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gandharva wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:58 pm
Wouter wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:18 pm
They will never do that.
They do not need. As they said.
So they already said that? I hadn't heard that yet. Thank you.
Do you perhaps know how they can probably solve the problems?
They need more balance and more downforce everywhere.
I don't think that can be solved with a few minor adjustments.

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB15

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Wouter wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:41 pm
So they already said that?
Yes.
"It's not a conceptual problem, but a detail thing – and it's not for the first time it has happened. But the wind in Bahrain multiplied it."

"At the very latest for Barcelona it should be done."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... x/4365162/

Personally I think there will be minor tweaks to frontwing or more likely bargeboards. But I'm not an aero specialist.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I think the less they say, (Marko) the better. With all of the statements he made, even before preseason, it seems he was way off the mark. Head down and push, push, push. I admire the way Honda have worked over the last 2 years especially, very little communication, and only when necessary. Some people think it's because their amateurs, but on the contrary, it's because they're professionals. When Tanabe makes a statement, he spends half the time being self analytical, almost critical, and insisting there's still a lot to do, we're not there yet. Meanwhile, they are almost there. Every area of the engine performance has been a massive step forward. Have you noticed how all 4 cars push from lights to flag, no indication of fuel saving? The good news is that Red Bull are an exceptional race team, so it's very likely that by Barcelona the car will be there, where it should have been from the start. I'm a McLaren fan, but I sincerely hoped that Red Bull would save us all from Mercedes, since Ferrari seems incapable.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:23 pm
I think the less they say, (Marko) the better. With all of the statements he made, even before preseason, it seems he was way off the mark. Head down and push, push, push. I admire the way Honda have worked over the last 2 years especially, very little communication, and only when necessary. Some people think it's because their amateurs, but on the contrary, it's because they're professionals. When Tanabe makes a statement, he spends half the time being self analytical, almost critical, and insisting there's still a lot to do, we're not there yet. Meanwhile, they are almost there. Every area of the engine performance has been a massive step forward. Have you noticed how all 4 cars push from lights to flag, no indication of fuel saving? The good news is that Red Bull are an exceptional race team, so it's very likely that by Barcelona the car will be there, where it should have been from the start. I'm a McLaren fan, but I sincerely hoped that Red Bull would save us all from Mercedes, since Ferrari seems incapable.
Well spoken. I totally agree, but I think Barcelona is too early. Hopefully I am wrong.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Its a month away, if they understand the issues and it doesn't take a complete chassis redesign. They can certainly take a step forward by Barcelona.
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Ground Effect
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:35 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:23 pm
I think the less they say, (Marko) the better. With all of the statements he made, even before preseason, it seems he was way off the mark. Head down and push, push, push. I admire the way Honda have worked over the last 2 years especially, very little communication, and only when necessary. Some people think it's because their amateurs, but on the contrary, it's because they're professionals. When Tanabe makes a statement, he spends half the time being self analytical, almost critical, and insisting there's still a lot to do, we're not there yet. Meanwhile, they are almost there. Every area of the engine performance has been a massive step forward. Have you noticed how all 4 cars push from lights to flag, no indication of fuel saving? The good news is that Red Bull are an exceptional race team, so it's very likely that by Barcelona the car will be there, where it should have been from the start. I'm a McLaren fan, but I sincerely hoped that Red Bull would save us all from Mercedes, since Ferrari seems incapable.
Well spoken. I totally agree, but I think Barcelona is too early. Hopefully I am wrong.
I have a strong belief they'll take a big step forward in Barcelona because I suspect they knew they had issues right from preseason testing, just like in 2017, when they produced a car that was some way off the top two. By Barcelona, they had made big gains. Horner had made some suggestions during testing that if they had taken a wrong turn with aero, it would take some weeks to resolve. So Barcelona shouldn't be unrealistic.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:49 pm
I have a strong belief they'll take a big step forward in Barcelona because I suspect they knew they had issues right from preseason testing, just like in 2017, when they produced a car that was some way off the top two. By Barcelona, they had made big gains. Horner had made some suggestions during testing that if they had taken a wrong turn with aero, it would take some weeks to resolve. So Barcelona shouldn't be unrealistic.
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:44 pm
Its a month away, if they understand the issues and it doesn't take a complete chassis redesign. They can certainly take a step forward by Barcelona.
That is what I am a little bit afraid of, that they have to redesign the complete chassis.
Hopefully I am completely wrong and you and @Ground Effect are absolutely right.
Thank you both for your encouraging answers.

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amho
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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[quote=Juzh



I saw verstapen's Q3 onboard lap that you have shared its link.
At the start line car keeps acceleration up to about 321kph before braking but at the end of lap about 2 sec before finish line car reach 300kph and does not accelerate at all for 4 sec while engine is at wot. it's weired because even if battery is empty at the end of lap but atleast we should see slight acceleration during that 4 sec , it seems like a problem.for sure ICE solely can beat drag at 300 kph even with the highest draggy setup.
I saw albon's lap his lap at the end was ok, accelerating all the time.
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HondaPOD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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amho wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:54 pm




I saw verstapen's Q3 onboard lap that you have shared its link.
At the start line car keeps acceleration up to about 321kph before braking but at the end of lap about 2 sec before finish line car reach 300kph and does not accelerate at all for 4 sec while engine is at wot. it's weired because even if battery is empty at the end of lap but atleast we should see slight acceleration during that 4 sec , it seems like a problem.for sure ICE solely can beat drag at 300 kph even with the highest draggy setup.
I saw albon's lap his lap at the end was ok, accelerating all the time.
It should be the gp2 engine again !!! =D> .
No need to accelerate after the finish line.

GhostF1
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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amho wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:54 pm
[quote=Juzh



I saw verstapen's Q3 onboard lap that you have shared its link.
At the start line car keeps acceleration up to about 321kph before braking but at the end of lap about 2 sec before finish line car reach 300kph and does not accelerate at all for 4 sec while engine is at wot. it's weired because even if battery is empty at the end of lap but atleast we should see slight acceleration during that 4 sec , it seems like a problem.for sure ICE solely can beat drag at 300 kph even with the highest draggy setup.
I saw albon's lap his lap at the end was ok, accelerating all the time.
There is a definite aero issue with the RB15. It has a domino effect on all other aspects, including diminishing the battery quicker for similar performance compared to the STR14. At this level, most of these engines don't really exceed 305kph when there is no hybrid assist available.

From what we've "seen", aal I can extrapolate is the RB15 produces too much drag but also too little downforce in return, that's not to say it has none, likely higher levels than most of the midfield, but what they expected verse the on track performance...

"The Honda is more powerful than we expected" is probably rubbish. Clearly the PU is a great leap forward, but I think it's more likely they have aero concepts that have gone down the wrong path. I believe them when they say they'll recover fast though.

Shanghai next and Ferrari dominated in qualifying last year, (engine was handy then) and arguably their race was lost due to strategy and the clash with Verstappen. RBR were very close to Merc. I'm a little concerned how we'll go this year if there are chassis issues, but a couple small updates coming. We'll see what happens.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Wouter wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:35 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:23 pm
I think the less they say, (Marko) the better. With all of the statements he made, even before preseason, it seems he was way off the mark. Head down and push, push, push. I admire the way Honda have worked over the last 2 years especially, very little communication, and only when necessary. Some people think it's because their amateurs, but on the contrary, it's because they're professionals. When Tanabe makes a statement, he spends half the time being self analytical, almost critical, and insisting there's still a lot to do, we're not there yet. Meanwhile, they are almost there. Every area of the engine performance has been a massive step forward. Have you noticed how all 4 cars push from lights to flag, no indication of fuel saving? The good news is that Red Bull are an exceptional race team, so it's very likely that by Barcelona the car will be there, where it should have been from the start. I'm a McLaren fan, but I sincerely hoped that Red Bull would save us all from Mercedes, since Ferrari seems incapable.
Well spoken. I totally agree, but I think Barcelona is too early. Hopefully I am wrong.
I have a strong belief they'll take a big step forward in Barcelona because I suspect they knew they had issues right from preseason testing, just like in 2017, when they produced a car that was some way off the top two. By Barcelona, they had made big gains. Horner had made some suggestions during testing that if they had taken a wrong turn with aero, it would take some weeks to resolve. So Barcelona shouldn't be unrealistic.
The problem is that it will have to be a massive move in performance... Mercedes and Ferrari won’t stay static waiting for RBH and if they come into Barcelona with what they should have had for Melbourne, the top 2 will still have 5 weeks of development on them.


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