2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Juzh wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:17 am
etusch wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:00 am
But Vettel ( who is driving another Ferrari ) was beated by Hamilton on track.
Might as well say RB7 and RB9 weren't dominant cars, after all button and alonso both beat webber to second in the championship :roll: You always have to compare best perfromances against each other, otherwise above mentioned scenario could actually hold watter, when it doesn't in reality.

Vettel was miles ahead of bottas before the error btw.

So maybe Ferrari wanted to show what they are with Leclerc and it ended up with failiure? This is just a teory. We will see it during season.
That's grasping for straws and making arguments just for the sake of making them. No proof or anything.
So there are variables. Engine maps, driver likes the track, feel comfortable with the tyres or car settings etc. And of course what was the team strategy for each driver. Will Ferrari feel comfortable again for pushing like leclerc in bahrain?
You have to consider that bottas were accepted that position before leclerc Engine issue. If vettel were front of him at that stage he could push but it was unnecessary
I don’t understand what your point is or what all of those variables have to do with the argument... The initial premise was that “Ferrari only has one lap pace and their race pace is the same as the rest of the field”... Bahrain didn’t left that impression, Ferrari was clearly faster than Mercedes and of course Red Bull.

We don’t know what will happen in China and history might not repeat itself... But to say that in Bahrain (which is the only point of data we all have in regards to Ferrari’s race pace) they were all “even” is far from reality.


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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I am not saying anything like "this is certain situation". I know Ferrari was fastest there (bahrain) but it was not a big advantage over rivals like Mercedes have at first race. (In second race it(Mercedes advantage) was not there. So australia is one track, bahrain is one another and Barcelona too) Mercedes's Both cars were easily at front in australia as you know.
I want to say that we have to see if it (Ferrari's ) performance is still there with reliability without being track specific
Last edited by etusch on Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:37 pm
I am not saying anything like "this is certain situation". I know Ferrari was fastest there (bahrain) but it was not a big advantage over rivals like Mercedes have at first race. (In second race it was not there. So australia is one track, bahrain is one another and Barcelona too) Both car were easily at front. I want to say that we have to see if it performance is still there with reliability without being track specific
I think I understand what you saying and I agree, there hasn't been exactly a clean weekend where you can be definitive, the quicker Ferrari didn't have reliability for reasons nobody is sure of. I get the feeling Red Bull will be closer to the overall leader in China than they have been so far, but probably still a gap there. Barcelona is very critical for them and like I said earlier, I have a feeling they knew of the issues in pre season and have been working on a fix.
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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
etusch wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:37 pm
I am not saying anything like "this is certain situation". I know Ferrari was fastest there (bahrain) but it was not a big advantage over rivals like Mercedes have at first race. (In second race it was not there. So australia is one track, bahrain is one another and Barcelona too) Both car were easily at front. I want to say that we have to see if it performance is still there with reliability without being track specific
I think I understand what you saying and I agree, there hasn't been exactly a clean weekend where you can be definitive, the quicker Ferrari didn't have reliability for reasons nobody is sure of. I get the feeling Red Bull will be closer to the overall leader in China than they have been so far, but probably still a gap there. Barcelona is very critical for them and like I said earlier, I have a feeling they knew of the issues in pre season and have been working on a fix.
I also agree that Red Bull will improve and hopefully start closing the gap to the top 2... What is also clear to me is that they knew about this issues during/after testing in Barcelona early in the year and that’s why I’m baffled by the comments made by Marko... When I pointed those out, people here were quick to argue that we didn’t had the data that RBH had, that we had to look at the “grey areas” or that I wasn’t thinking “3 dimensionally” (I’m still trying to figure it out).

The reality is that RBH is going through some issues right now, that most probably will solve soon and that believing anything that comes out of Dr. Helmut’s mouth is probably a big mistake.


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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:19 pm
etusch wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:37 pm
I am not saying anything like "this is certain situation". I know Ferrari was fastest there (bahrain) but it was not a big advantage over rivals like Mercedes have at first race. (In second race it was not there. So australia is one track, bahrain is one another and Barcelona too) Both car were easily at front. I want to say that we have to see if it performance is still there with reliability without being track specific
I think I understand what you saying and I agree, there hasn't been exactly a clean weekend where you can be definitive, the quicker Ferrari didn't have reliability for reasons nobody is sure of. I get the feeling Red Bull will be closer to the overall leader in China than they have been so far, but probably still a gap there. Barcelona is very critical for them and like I said earlier, I have a feeling they knew of the issues in pre season and have been working on a fix.
I see that you understand me correct

rogazilla
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:33 pm
... What is also clear to me is that they knew about this issues during/after testing in Barcelona early in the year and that’s why I’m baffled by the comments made by Marko...

...
Why would you take their statement in any way as serious? Principle or CEO or Adviser say things to attract sponsorship, boost team moral or whatever reason but in no way shape of form should we take them serious unless you are just a casual fan. Why do Toto always propping other teams up? Why Abitoul always talk about the big performance coming?

To be fair of Marko said this is the most expensive car, maybe it is, it is the best packaging and maybe it is. It doesn't mean they didn't get the Aero wrong. He said this is the best car they have built, sure compare to the cars last year it is probably better. Is it good enough compare to others? Not sure why you hanging onto his statement so much. :?

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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rogazilla wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:33 pm
... What is also clear to me is that they knew about this issues during/after testing in Barcelona early in the year and that’s why I’m baffled by the comments made by Marko...

...
Why would you take their statement in any way as serious? Principle or CEO or Adviser say things to attract sponsorship, boost team moral or whatever reason but in no way shape of form should we take them serious unless you are just a casual fan. Why do Toto always propping other teams up? Why Abitoul always talk about the big performance coming?

To be fair of Marko said this is the most expensive car, maybe it is, it is the best packaging and maybe it is. It doesn't mean they didn't get the Aero wrong. He said this is the best car they have built, sure compare to the cars last year it is probably better. Is it good enough compare to others? Not sure why you hanging onto his statement so much. :?
Not hanging into the statement as much as the reaction when it was challenged... And no, I don’t challenge the fact that it is the most expensive chassis they’ve ever build or that it has the best packaging... Challenging his comments in regards to the pecking order, been 2 tenths from Ferrari and ahead of Mercedes or even making comments about the competition (as having Mclaren as clear 9th in the grid for the season) after testing... When they stated that they were rushing their China package to Melbourne, I mentioned that it seemed that they did so because they realized in Barcelona that they were farther from the Ferrari and Mercedes than they finished last year and needed the additional performance in order not to be as far away...

Simply, my arguments were “attacked” and the fact that as you clearly point out and I also stated that his comments should be taken with a grain of salt where received with blind acceptance of Marko’s comments as accurate and truthful.

Finally, this is a forum and last time I checked... Part of the appeal is to be able to debate ideas, right?... Now is just time to wait for China to see how the teams keep evolving... So far, glad that it seemed I didn’t read the situation wrong.


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rogazilla
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I am all for forum and public debate but keep bringing up these statement really doesn't go anywhere. What's the end goal of the debate? Every redbull fan to say 'Yes Marko lied'? It has been said countless time take what these guys said with a grain of salt from almost every thread whether it is Marko, Toto or anyone else. I would much rather have a discussion on substances, this is a technical forum afterall.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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rogazilla wrote:I am all for forum and public debate but keep bringing up these statement really doesn't go anywhere. What's the end goal of the debate? Every redbull fan to say 'Yes Marko lied'? It has been said countless time take what these guys said with a grain of salt from almost every thread whether it is Marko, Toto or anyone else. I would much rather have a discussion on substances, this is a technical forum afterall.
I considered it relevant given the latest comments coming from Red Bull... Just a day until FP1... I’m sure there will be more to talk about at that point.


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HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Red Bull Bahrain F1 issues traced back to mechanical set-up error

"We understood already a lot in testing, and we also found out we made a mistake with the set-up, the whole week, unfortunately," he said.

"That's how it goes. As long as we found it [it's OK]."

Asked to elaborate, he said the error was "big enough" and "mechanical," and that it affected both his and Gasly's cars.
"If we could find a good balance within the car I think we could definitely be fighting closer, yeah," he said.

"Then for sure, we would have finished third [ahead of Charles Leclerc's ailing Ferrari] in Bahrain.
"It was windy throughout the whole weekend.

"I was never happy with the balance, always trying to get it, but we never got it.
"With what we found we could understand why we couldn't find a good balance.

"If there's something set up wrong, like we had, then you can do whatever you like on the car, and you will always have the same issue."

Verstappen said the error was not specifically to blame for the team's struggles on the softer tyres in Bahrain, and added the set-up issue would be "a simple fix" for the Chinese Grand Prix.

Asked by Autosport if the RB15 was the most difficult F1 car to set-up that he has experienced, Verstappen compared it favourably to its predecessor.

"To be honest not," he said. "I feel comfortable in the car, and I drive it as fast as I can.
"But for example in Australia we did quite a good job to be fourth [in qualifying], even in Bahrain to be fifth I was actually quite happy.

"At the moment it's just not really quick enough. But like I said before, in Bahrain we found some issues.
"I feel comfortable, there's nothing wrong with that. I feel better in this car than last year's car."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14268 ... etup-error

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Capharol
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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HPD wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:29 pm
Red Bull Bahrain F1 issues traced back to mechanical set-up error

"We understood already a lot in testing, and we also found out we made a mistake with the set-up, the whole week, unfortunately," he said.

"That's how it goes. As long as we found it [it's OK]."

Asked to elaborate, he said the error was "big enough" and "mechanical," and that it affected both his and Gasly's cars.
"If we could find a good balance within the car I think we could definitely be fighting closer, yeah," he said.

"Then for sure, we would have finished third [ahead of Charles Leclerc's ailing Ferrari] in Bahrain.
"It was windy throughout the whole weekend.

"I was never happy with the balance, always trying to get it, but we never got it.
"With what we found we could understand why we couldn't find a good balance.

"If there's something set up wrong, like we had, then you can do whatever you like on the car, and you will always have the same issue."

Verstappen said the error was not specifically to blame for the team's struggles on the softer tyres in Bahrain, and added the set-up issue would be "a simple fix" for the Chinese Grand Prix.

Asked by Autosport if the RB15 was the most difficult F1 car to set-up that he has experienced, Verstappen compared it favourably to its predecessor.

"To be honest not," he said. "I feel comfortable in the car, and I drive it as fast as I can.
"But for example in Australia we did quite a good job to be fourth [in qualifying], even in Bahrain to be fifth I was actually quite happy.

"At the moment it's just not really quick enough. But like I said before, in Bahrain we found some issues.
"I feel comfortable, there's nothing wrong with that. I feel better in this car than last year's car."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14268 ... etup-error
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
you beat me to it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Capharol wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:37 pm
HPD wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:29 pm
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
you beat me to it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Good luck for the next 8)
:lol:

dxpetrov
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Sometimes it feels like a kindergarten here...

marvin78
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Not sometimes. It is one.

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HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Smiling is not only for children.
Come to me @dxpetrov and @ marvin78. I will give you some love that you need <3

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