2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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restless
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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As I wrote in other thread - its impossible to produce at least 4 engines in such short time
These engines were planned well ahead - but perhaps for barcelona? IIRC 3-4 weeks ahead time for producing was claimed... and everything has to signed off for production ahead of that
So, they literally were sitting on these engines, waiting for the moment to introduce the spec. Kvyat's problem signalled "go ahead"

Singabule
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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loner wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:20 am
Stef wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:05 am
Surely the Spec 1 will be used on Fridays for as long as possible.
spec 2 is a modified spec 1( flawed), so spec 3 is the original scheduled update.
i won't be surprised if they introduce it after 2 or 3 races.. and take a penalty in SPA for spec 4 the last update.
well assuming reliability stands...
Its handmade engine, even with honda resources its not possible to do in 1 week. Offcourse its scheduled one as they always have several spec even in winter testing. If you dont believe, please see Tost comment on kvyat engine change last race, he slightly displeased coz it is 1st spec engine, as he knew that honda will introduce new spec this weekend

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Artur Craft
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Going by Honda's official statement, the improvement in performance is a lot less than 20HP(that is a lot).

Espresso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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The spec 1.0 is not flawed. Just a component not 'up to standards and quality control' that could possibly break down.

The spec 2.0 has been ready since mid March and was lying on the shelves 'collecting dust' and just an 'In case of emergency' ICE. The 4 spec 2.0 engines + extra spares were send via the UK to Baku.

The development was that a spec 3.0 is currently intended for Barcelona. But development is an ongoing proces and they might skip the 3.0. We have to wait and see.

The promised 20hp for Baku is solely intended to be achieved by the fuel/lubricants (and related different mappings). The spec 2.0 ICE itself adds an additional gain in hp.
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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Espresso wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:11 pm
The spec 1.0 is not flawed. Just a component not 'up to standards and quality control' that could possibly break down.

The spec 2.0 has been ready since mid March and was lying on the shelves 'collecting dust' and just an 'In case of emergency' ICE. The 4 spec 2.0 engines + extra spares were send via the UK to Baku.

The development was that a spec 3.0 is currently intended for Barcelona. But development is an ongoing proces and they might skip the 3.0. We have to wait and see.

The promised 20hp for Baku is solely intended to be achieved by the fuel/lubricants (and related different mappings). The spec 2.0 ICE itself adds an additional gain in hp.
If that were true, I think, Albon and Kvyat would have it in china.
Tanabe san talked about slight performance gain, that may be achieved without any hp increase in total power

Ground Effect
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I've got mixed feelings about taking a new engine so soon. Hopefully, they're downplaying the performance improvement, because if you're taking a new engine for a 0.1secs or 0.2secs, you're still 3rd best in qualifying and you're kind of guaranteeing an out of sync penalty, where you're not going to pick the venue, but the venue picks you.
Seeing the performance of Max so far this season, the guy is 100% ready for a title assault, I'm really hoping he gets a good chance before the season goes too far in. I know he's young, but this incredible form shouldn't be wasted, F1 can be brutal sometimes and things can go away from you. Anyways, spec 3 should be much better, we need Max, Honda and Red Bull to rescue the world from Mercedes! :D
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Bill
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Rbr was 0.3 tenth away from pole in china Max 1st q3 split the Ferraris . 20hp is around .3 tenth in Baku it makes huge difference with Renault they were usually 0.7 to 1.5 tenth to the leader in qualifying at engine circuits were power is paramount so changing to Honda made a big difference even though they are still the third best team. Mercedes only found 12hp during winter so Honda upgrades is not something to be sneered at

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Bill wrote:Rbr was 0.3 tenth away from pole in china Max 1st q3 split the Ferraris . 20hp is around .3 tenth in Baku it makes huge difference with Renault they were usually 0.7 to 1.5 tenth to the leader in qualifying at engine circuits were power is paramount so changing to Honda made a big difference even though they are still the third best team. Mercedes only found 12hp during winter so Honda upgrades is not something to be sneered at
Where do you get your data from? I haven’t read anywhere that Mercedes only found 12 HP during winter...

On the other hand, your assessment that Red Bull with Renault were 0.7 to 1.5 tenth from the leader in qualifying is false... Last year, Red Bull was 0.413 from the pole in Baku... In addition, if the comparison is to Mercedes, they were 0.234 from the fastest Mercedes in Baku (Hamilton).


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Bill
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I didn't say Baku but tracks with high speed corners like spa or Austin

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Bill wrote:I didn't say Baku but tracks with high speed corners like spa or Austin
I thought you meant at engine powered circuits, which Baku is one of those... In Canada (another power circuit), Red Bull as 0.173 from Pole too


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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:17 pm

Where do you get your data from? I haven’t read anywhere that Mercedes only found 12 HP during winter...

On the other hand, your assessment that Red Bull with Renault were 0.7 to 1.5 tenth from the leader in qualifying is false... Last year, Red Bull was 0.413 from the pole in Baku... In addition, if the comparison is to Mercedes, they were 0.234 from the fastest Mercedes in Baku (Hamilton).
There was an article was saying that Mercedes found about 12. It was 1 month or more before from winter testing. We don't know if that was true or not but if it is true they can be found additional hp's.
There must be smaller room to develop for mercedes and Ferrari than Renault and Honda. So it may be limited by 12 or lesser from it too.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:03 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:17 pm

Where do you get your data from? I haven’t read anywhere that Mercedes only found 12 HP during winter...

On the other hand, your assessment that Red Bull with Renault were 0.7 to 1.5 tenth from the leader in qualifying is false... Last year, Red Bull was 0.413 from the pole in Baku... In addition, if the comparison is to Mercedes, they were 0.234 from the fastest Mercedes in Baku (Hamilton).
There was an article was saying that Mercedes found about 12. It was 1 month or more before from winter testing. We don't know if that was true or not but if it is true they can be found additional hp's.
There must be smaller room to develop for mercedes and Ferrari than Renault and Honda. So it may be limited by 12 or lesser from it too.
I asume you mean this article Etusch.

https://thejudge13.com/2019/01/07/rumou ... n-more-hp/

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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:47 pm
etusch wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:03 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:17 pm

Where do you get your data from? I haven’t read anywhere that Mercedes only found 12 HP during winter...

On the other hand, your assessment that Red Bull with Renault were 0.7 to 1.5 tenth from the leader in qualifying is false... Last year, Red Bull was 0.413 from the pole in Baku... In addition, if the comparison is to Mercedes, they were 0.234 from the fastest Mercedes in Baku (Hamilton).
There was an article was saying that Mercedes found about 12. It was 1 month or more before from winter testing. We don't know if that was true or not but if it is true they can be found additional hp's.
There must be smaller room to develop for mercedes and Ferrari than Renault and Honda. So it may be limited by 12 or lesser from it too.
I asume you mean this article Etusch.

https://thejudge13.com/2019/01/07/rumou ... n-more-hp/
Yep. But at different site

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Looking over last year's race, this year's car is actually faster in the race(China) than last year's car by .3 seconds a lap on average. They're just down almost .4 seconds in race pace to Mercedes, it's a hard gap to close when we see Mercedes bringing their own updates. If Honda's update is worth just .2 and RB can eek another .1 out of the chassis, then Max can make the difference in the race. They're so close yet so far away.
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loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:43 pm
I've got mixed feelings about taking a new engine so soon. Hopefully, they're downplaying the performance improvement, because if you're taking a new engine for a 0.1secs or 0.2secs, you're still 3rd best in qualifying and you're kind of guaranteeing an out of sync penalty, where you're not going to pick the venue, but the venue picks you.
Seeing the performance of Max so far this season, the guy is 100% ready for a title assault, I'm really hoping he gets a good chance before the season goes too far in. I know he's young, but this incredible form shouldn't be wasted, F1 can be brutal sometimes and things can go away from you. Anyways, spec 3 should be much better, we need Max, Honda and Red Bull to rescue the world from Mercedes! :D
2 tenths this early is not bad , the major car update comes in Spain and the upcoming Honda upgrade will be big
quoting MV
In Baku we are expecting new parts for the car and engine, the real work is set for a later date," he said
, and
Honda's Yamamoto is banking on a winning summer
https://f1i.com/news/334193-hondas-yama ... ummer.html

so if RBR gain a quarter second in Baku rejoice...
para bellum.