2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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HPD wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:32 pm
In the race, the distances increase. Without the safety car, Max Verstappen would finish in mathematical terms, 23 seconds behind and Sebastian Vettel with 38 seconds. It took Lewis Hamilton at the top in accordance with the statements of the Mercedes engineers still comfortable.


So the average gap is still around .35 seconds per lap. Mercedes has the tires in the perfect window all lap while the others overheat the surface? I understand that tires being in their window vs out can mean easily .5 seconds of lap time.

I don't buy the aero on the Mercedes being better than the Red Bull. The difference in mid and high speed corners is too small.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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OK, I'm going to spam a little that afternoon, but some of you wanted more videos of the last chicane to compare other cars too, so here you are. I've more on the pipeline for later...!

The SF90 on the chicane, same angle that one from Merc



Alfa, Mclaren, Mercedes and a RP, other angle



Look that oversteer when accelerating of the STR :o



Same angle with RS19, STR, HAAS, Mclaren



Same angle than before, with STR, SF90 and W10



3rd sector of the STR and the SF90 and W10 coming on the chicane



Another 3rd sector of the STR alone



Later more, hope it's useful for you :mrgreen:

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loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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HPD wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:32 pm
In the race, the distances increase. Without the safety car, Max Verstappen would finish in mathematical terms, 23 seconds behind and Sebastian Vettel with 38 seconds. It took Lewis Hamilton at the top in accordance with the statements of the Mercedes engineers still comfortable.

The image of the tire revealed another bitter truth. The Mercedes would have been the only car that would have made a one-stop race at full speed. Ferrari and Red Bull should have changed twice in full attack due to high-wear tires.

Mercedes does not care on most routes how much time they lose on the straights. Because they win time twice and three times in shifts.
Mercedes has deliberately gone this way, an engineer tells us: "The fuel limit was raised from 105 to 110 kilograms, which was also a gift for aerodynamics, they were able to pack and sacrifice efficiency."

Ferrari and Red Bull, on the other hand, have built super efficient cars. In Red Bull it is in the minds of engineers. They were five years long, one must compensate for the PS deficit of the Renault engine through small wings, but more use of the car. Now you are with Honda to only 30 HP of Mercedes, but it has less downforce. And already the chassis is in the review.

Ferrari was launched with the introduction of wide cars in the Red Bull line. That worked well for two years.

The simplest front wing favors the aerodynamic philosophy of the Mercedes. The sets are long instead of a large angle. The Mercedes W10 is between the wheels by 7.9 inches longer than the Red Bull RB15 and 4.5 inches like the Ferrari SF90. Because the Mercedes is behind about 41 millimeters less high in the springs than the Red Bull and 23 millimeters less than the Ferrari.

When turning in a curve, the new front spoiler no longer allows the engineers to directly attack the turbulence of air created in the front wheels that have been hit. That has to happen right behind that. Mercedes has, due to the length of the vehicle, more space between the front wheels and the side boxes accommodate deflectors to calm the flow backwards.

Mercedes has obviously drawn the right conclusions from the Abu Dhabi test last December. A stiffer casing means that the tire gets worse inside. A thinner tread makes the heat worse in the tire. Therefore, the window of the tire slid up.

An engineer tells us: "Ferrari and Red Bull are slipping so much in the first two sectors of Barcelona that they enter the third sector with a surface that is too hot.When Mercedes, the tires are still in the window, so you win twice in the last sector, through more contact pressure and more tire grip ".

It was Mercedes who advised Pirelli last year to reduce the footprint on the critical tracks. If the silver arrows have had a problem in the last five years, then the tires tend to overheat.

Mercedes was also among the six teams that voted for the new aerodynamic rules. By the way, Ferrari too. Red Bull was against. For a good reason. And Mercedes has not vetoed when the fuel limit was raised.

The Mercedes V6 Turbo is the most economical engine in the field. But the advantage it gives up when it comes to fuel consumption, turned out to be less than the advantage one gains in aerodynamics.

This does not bode well for the future. Mercedes can build on the best platform. That's why updates work better than the competition. Ferrari and Red Bull are practically tied hands. They will only take a big step forward if they change the concept of their cars.

At first glance, it seems that Red Bull has the easiest job ahead of Ferrari. After all, it is not easy to mount a steep wing in the rear, which then delivers any downforce. Everything has to be balanced in front. And there are limits for engineers due to the new front wing.

After all, Red Bull has a wing concept like Mercedes. Ferrari went by the other side. But it is not so easy to copy the wing of the competition. The aerodynamics are so complex that you really have to change everything from front to back.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... t-vorteil/
:cry:
you guys really think a team will go 8 tenths faster than their archrival in a single sector
for what is written in this article .. as if its the first time for regulations to change...
para bellum.

LM10
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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loner wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:28 pm
you guys really think a team will go 8 tenths faster than their archrival in a single sector
for what is written in this article .. as if its the first time for regulations to change...
The thing is, that this time the aero changes as well as the tyre changes seem to favor Mercedes.

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loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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LM10 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 pm
loner wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:28 pm
you guys really think a team will go 8 tenths faster than their archrival in a single sector
for what is written in this article .. as if its the first time for regulations to change...
The thing is, that this time the aero changes as well as the tyre changes seem to favor Mercedes.
i got you .. and thats exactly what i refuse
my take is Mercs got something very innovative up their sleeves so the other teams should stop complaining and up their game, RBR specially for they are a tycoon when it comes to building a great car they already overtook Ferrari.
Honda also need an upgrade, season is still young.
para bellum.

McMika98
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Season is over guys. Thats all folks. Monza and maybe mexico will be won by Ferrari but for RedBull, Merc has them on arm length faster on slower corners with much more efficient aero and engine.

Bumper cars
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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loner dude wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:28 pm
you guys really think a team will go 8 tenths faster than their archrival in a single sector
for what is written in this article .. as if its the first time for regulations to change...

i got you .. and thats exactly what i refuse
my take is Mercs got something very innovative up their sleeves so the other teams should stop complaining and up their game, RBR specially for they are a tycoon when it comes to building a great car they already overtook Ferrari.
Honda also need an upgrade, season is still young.
Well, that "something very innovative" up their sleeves is called downforce plus superior traction. Unless you have other gps data to discard the analysis made by Auto Motor und Sport...things are pretty straightforward. Both Red Bull and Ferrari need a B-spec with no/less rake to generate the required downforce. Every concept that is too sensitive/dependent on the front wing is a loser. That's why the Mercs give the rest an *ss whooping...

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loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Bumper cars wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:27 pm

Well, that "something very innovative" up their sleeves is called downforce plus superior traction. Unless you have other gps data to discard the analysis made by Auto Motor und Sport...things are pretty straightforward. Both Red Bull and Ferrari need a B-spec with no/less rake to generate the required downforce. Every concept that is too sensitive/dependent on the front wing is a loser. That's why the Mercs give the rest an *ss whooping...
i didn't see RBR as a loser in baku MV was going to overtake SV and LH except for the SC...
Mercs introduced something new in Spain with their updates.
LM10 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:02 pm
https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/status/1 ... 2606964737
Interesting Horner: "The Pirelli 2019 have 25% less rubber and are more rigid [...] the concept of aerodynamics (with High Rake) that we developed in the last year was very sensitive to the front wing. we must rebalance new regulations. " # TechF1 #FUnoAT
lets see what is RBR solution.. is it a b spec as you say with less rake or something else.
para bellum.

dxpetrov
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Lol, it's not as easy as you guys think. To change rake and to make car working with that is a years job. That would require new car and we can't expect that to happen before 2020, and even if it happens, it's gonna require at least full season to make it work optimally to make it on par with Mercedes, who are optimising this concept for number of years now.

sn809
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Firstly great work @Marti_ef3
Do you guys realise Merc could simply be throwing ppl off calling it Magic Diff while infact it could just be an engine mode leading to more traction at lower gears.
If Honda/RBR have picked up on it they are trying to implement it and ending up with broken gear boxes.

OR

Honda engineers did say they have achieved reliability and want more speed now and this gearbox issue could be due to problems with gearbox and high engine mode for longer time.

garygph
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Does anyone here have friends/contacts in the factory that could add to what I have heard? That being that there is a fundamental change happening in the culture of the team. Someone I know who works there and has said that something feels wrong and the general atmosphere of the place has changed. People are leaving or being fired for reasons that would not have been seen there in years past. This person has been there for a long time but it is one persons perspective that I am hearing which is why I have asked this question.

Interestingly he also said that at Williams the Production Manager was an absolute bully but got things done was fired and that left a vacuum and sudden relief of pressure to get things done which was when they had the big delays. Wrong thread for this bit of info I know.

bosyber
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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McMika98 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:45 pm
Season is over guys. Thats all folks. Monza and maybe mexico will be won by Ferrari but for RedBull, Merc has them on arm length faster on slower corners with much more efficient aero and engine.
Well no, if AMuS is correct, their aero is not at all more efficient, but their concept allows them to pack more Aero on, even if it is draggier, that is enough to work out - quite a bit like the winning Red Bull formula: lots of df, get pole, drive away from the front.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Nice article about de updates from Mercedes, Ferrari and RBR.

Technical Analysis: Ferrari develop but Mercedes win
16 May 2019 13:09 By: Paolo Filisetti, Formula one technical Analyst.

https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/2475 ... rcedes-win

lio007
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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garygph wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:06 am
Does anyone here have friends/contacts in the factory that could add to what I have heard? That being that there is a fundamental change happening in the culture of the team. Someone I know who works there and has said that something feels wrong and the general atmosphere of the place has changed. People are leaving or being fired for reasons that would not have been seen there in years past. This person has been there for a long time but it is one persons perspective that I am hearing which is why I have asked this question.

Interestingly he also said that at Williams the Production Manager was an absolute bully but got things done was fired and that left a vacuum and sudden relief of pressure to get things done which was when they had the big delays. Wrong thread for this bit of info I know.
Oh no...your post raise some concern!!!

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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lio007 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:16 pm
garygph wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:06 am
Does anyone here have friends/contacts in the factory that could add to what I have heard? That being that there is a fundamental change happening in the culture of the team. Someone I know who works there and has said that something feels wrong and the general atmosphere of the place has changed. People are leaving or being fired for reasons that would not have been seen there in years past. This person has been there for a long time but it is one persons perspective that I am hearing which is why I have asked this question.

Interestingly he also said that at Williams the Production Manager was an absolute bully but got things done was fired and that left a vacuum and sudden relief of pressure to get things done which was when they had the big delays. Wrong thread for this bit of info I know.
Oh no...your post raise some concern!!!

@Lio007, it looks like @garygph is right, they only ;-) need a

* Structural Analysis Group Leader Closing Date: 20.05.2019
* Senior Aerodynamics Engineer Closing Date: 27.05.2019
* Aerodynamics Engineer Closing Date: 27.05.2019
* Aerodynamics Engineer Closing Date: 03.06.2019
and another four people. ;-)

https://redbullracing.redbull.com/careerslisting