2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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ME4ME
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by ME4ME » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:00 pm

shingles wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:09 pm
It’s funny how people’s expectation changes on the fly. Even though RBH has not finished below 5th place and have two podiums, in a first year partnership... now it’s not good enough.

Of course we all want more... but some perspective is probably good in life.
Whos expectations change on the fly? How do you know what they expected in the first place? And why do you bother tracking that anyway?

Regarding perspectives, yes it is indeed good to try and look at a situation from angles. You've given two angles, now let me give you some more.

-RBH has no wins to date in 2019 against two wins last year.
-Red Bull cannot claim anymore that they have the best chassis, they are lagging by their own admission.
-They were not the best at Monaco and have gone backwards in Canada compared to last year.
-The Honda partnership was setup well in time for the 2019 season and benefited from the Toro Rosso and RB Technology collaboration, the "new partnership" excuse weares off quickly.
-Regardless of claimed power advances, they are still not on par and behind.
-Red Bull as a team is weaker than they ended last year.
-RBH's top driver on top form has not been competing for wins (~bar Monaco) and is merely racing for the last podium spot.

There are plenty positives as well, reliability being one, but as you see there are plenty of bullet points to be made and depending on how you weight them you can come to different conclusions. Mine is the feeling of slight disappointment. If you think that is unreasonable and "funny" that fine thats your opinion.
I hoped and still do hope for better results from Red Bull Honda this very year.

ispano6
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by ispano6 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:13 pm

At some point you need to ignore the Debbie Downers here who refute what Marko, Horner and Verstappen say about the defiencies of the chassis and insist going with Honda is a step backwards. No amount of money will convince these fools so no sense in trying to convince them.
They just don't realize how screwed RBR would have been had they had Renault engines still. They would be getting second rate engine parts as they watch Renault overtake them in the championship, just like what will happen to that orange team.

shingles
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by shingles » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:27 pm

ME4ME wrote:
shingles wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:09 pm
It’s funny how people’s expectation changes on the fly. Even though RBH has not finished below 5th place and have two podiums, in a first year partnership... now it’s not good enough.

Of course we all want more... but some perspective is probably good in life.
Whos expectations change on the fly? How do you know what they expected in the first place? And why do you bother tracking that anyway?

Regarding perspectives, yes it is indeed good to try and look at a situation from angles. You've given two angles, now let me give you some more.

-RBH has no wins to date in 2019 against two wins last year.
-Red Bull cannot claim anymore that they have the best chassis, they are lagging by their own admission.
-They were not the best at Monaco and have gone backwards in Canada compared to last year.
-The Honda partnership was setup well in time for the 2019 season and benefited from the Toro Rosso and RB Technology collaboration, the "new partnership" excuse weares off quickly.
-Regardless of claimed power advances, they are still not on par and behind.
-Red Bull as a team is weaker than they ended last year.
-RBH's top driver on top form has not been competing for wins (~bar Monaco) and is merely racing for the last podium spot.

There are plenty positives as well, reliability being one, but as you see there are plenty of bullet points to be made and depending on how you weight them you can come to different conclusions. Mine is the feeling of slight disappointment. If you think that is unreasonable and "funny" that fine thats your opinion.
I hoped and still do hope for better results from Red Bull Honda this very year.
Man... stay calm no one is attacking you. You post your opinion I posted mine. Relax. It’s Friday (at least in the USA).

Who isnt hoping for better results? I even said that. If F1 was so damn easy even Renault could be world champs (lol sorry. Had to. )

Yes the chassis seems to be a little bit of a step backwards relative to last year. But don’t forget there was a regulation change. Big or small, effective or not, it was a change that they have to figure out on top of the integration with Honda. Sure Merc had it figure out, that why they are kicking ass. You could argue Ferrari hasn’t figured it out either.





ispano6
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by ispano6 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:40 pm

Maplesoup wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:44 am
...
So again as i said there is no evidence of new packaging, only a power upgrade that could come from any part of the power unit.

We need to stop stating speculation as fact, if its your opinion or a theory you have then fantastic but state it as such rather than trying to convince people that what you are saying is true.
You're mixing me with someone else. I never said packaging or aero accommodation, only what I surmise as the updates that Marko and Tanabe have stated will be. Granted, it has not been stated in the press anywhere regarding what IHI is developing for Honda but it is a fact they are ARE working on turbo development with greater involvement than in previous years.
Truth is everything is speculation in F1 and results speak for themselves. No team comes out and spills the beans on what they did or what they will do. Misdirection and being coy is the name of the game. (Perhaps) there is a double standard against Honda for not being European, but Honda will do things the Honda way.
We never heard of the reason from RB for the driveshaft failure or what they were trying new that led to that. And Honda only cited a quality control issue as the reason for introducing Spec2.

Others here noted in pictures updates to the bodywork and noticeable differences in the red lines of the livery. In my belief they've already changed the drivetrain packaging a number of times without needing to change restricted elements simply accommodating with ancillary changes. I feel the drive issue Gasly encountered might be related to a packaging change but I could be totally off mark, it could have simply been QC issues or maybe he damaged it somehow.

Alexf1
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Alexf1 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:47 am

Hope Gasly can get it together with the new aero updates. Otherwise I foresee a swap with Kvyat after summer break.

etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by etusch » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:56 am

Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:47 am
Hope Gasly can get it together with the new aero updates. Otherwise I foresee a swap with Kvyat after summer break.
Is there inseason test still before summerbreak. If so a swap test would be good between Kvyat and Gasly. It would show us if they drive well other cars or still strugling.
But with this form of mercedes and Redbull even wcc is out of reach

Alexf1
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Alexf1 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:38 pm


ispano6
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by ispano6 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:32 pm

My wife and I found this pretty funny.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit ... ast_night/

Imagine if Horner fired Gasly on a Spice Girls concert

377
Yarxing • Jun 15, 2019, 1:21 AM
"Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want.."

356
ilikeracing23 • Jun 15, 2019, 1:48 AM
“I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, tell you we’ve terminated the agreement and you need to grab your things and leave.”

215
Huggybear__ • Jun 15, 2019, 4:00 AM
"If you wanna be my driver, you gotta get within a tenth"

152

GhostF1
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by GhostF1 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:15 am

ME4ME wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:00 pm
shingles wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:09 pm
It’s funny how people’s expectation changes on the fly. Even though RBH has not finished below 5th place and have two podiums, in a first year partnership... now it’s not good enough.

Of course we all want more... but some perspective is probably good in life.
Whos expectations change on the fly? How do you know what they expected in the first place? And why do you bother tracking that anyway?

Regarding perspectives, yes it is indeed good to try and look at a situation from angles. You've given two angles, now let me give you some more.

-RBH has no wins to date in 2019 against two wins last year.
-Red Bull cannot claim anymore that they have the best chassis, they are lagging by their own admission.
-They were not the best at Monaco and have gone backwards in Canada compared to last year.
-The Honda partnership was setup well in time for the 2019 season and benefited from the Toro Rosso and RB Technology collaboration, the "new partnership" excuse weares off quickly.
-Regardless of claimed power advances, they are still not on par and behind.
-Red Bull as a team is weaker than they ended last year.
-RBH's top driver on top form has not been competing for wins (~bar Monaco) and is merely racing for the last podium spot.

There are plenty positives as well, reliability being one, but as you see there are plenty of bullet points to be made and depending on how you weight them you can come to different conclusions. Mine is the feeling of slight disappointment. If you think that is unreasonable and "funny" that fine thats your opinion.
I hoped and still do hope for better results from Red Bull Honda this very year.
You obviously either don't watch the races or you only read headlines from autosport..

This "Red Bull have no wins compared to last year" nonsense drives me crazy... Why is that relevant. They have been consistently faster for a majority of the season compared with last year, even with a decreased downforce intended reg change and have been CONSIDERABLY more reliable. If they had Renault's in the back we'd of had at minimal two failures for both drivers...
Honda have made strides in power and still admit they are behind, but are confident they'll match by late season. Why are people using this against them?? They should be applauded for their progress, especially compared with Renault who are at best a match this season even with a development time advantage.

RBR have had a major PU architecture change which completely alters the rear end at a minimum. They know they are behind and are working on it. Everything people are stating as negatives are actually things RBR and Honda have admitted yet are confident they'll have sorted.

The needless toxicity and obvious lack of knowledge behind these false statements is insane. Just proves most of this rubbish is from trolls, not true F1 fans

ME4ME
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by ME4ME » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:55 am

GhostF1 wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:15 am
You obviously either don't watch the races or you only read headlines from autosport..

This "Red Bull have no wins compared to last year" nonsense drives me crazy... Why is that relevant. They have been consistently faster for a majority of the season compared with last year, even with a decreased downforce intended reg change and have been CONSIDERABLY more reliable. If they had Renault's in the back we'd of had at minimal two failures for both drivers...
Honda have made strides in power and still admit they are behind, but are confident they'll match by late season. Why are people using this against them?? They should be applauded for their progress, especially compared with Renault who are at best a match this season even with a development time advantage.

RBR have had a major PU architecture change which completely alters the rear end at a minimum. They know they are behind and are working on it. Everything people are stating as negatives are actually things RBR and Honda have admitted yet are confident they'll have sorted.

The needless toxicity and obvious lack of knowledge behind these false statements is insane. Just proves most of this rubbish is from trolls, not true F1 fans
I feel that Red Bull Honda have over-promised and under-delivered, especially on the chassis side. The progress they were making in the second half of last year has stagnated and Red Bull is still a distant third or second with quite a significant deficit. Aren't you disappointed by that? Verstappen said it himself, even if he had qualified well he wasn't going to beat Bottas in Canada. Now I have my doubts but he certainly wasn't going to challenge the leaders.

I share the hope and excitement for the coming upgrades, but i've come to realize that the hype train sometimes goes faster than the actual car. Feel free to disagree but please be respectful.
Shingles is right, time to calm down. Advice taken.

GhostF1
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by GhostF1 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:00 am

ME4ME wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:55 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:15 am
You obviously either don't watch the races or you only read headlines from autosport..

This "Red Bull have no wins compared to last year" nonsense drives me crazy... Why is that relevant. They have been consistently faster for a majority of the season compared with last year, even with a decreased downforce intended reg change and have been CONSIDERABLY more reliable. If they had Renault's in the back we'd of had at minimal two failures for both drivers...
Honda have made strides in power and still admit they are behind, but are confident they'll match by late season. Why are people using this against them?? They should be applauded for their progress, especially compared with Renault who are at best a match this season even with a development time advantage.

RBR have had a major PU architecture change which completely alters the rear end at a minimum. They know they are behind and are working on it. Everything people are stating as negatives are actually things RBR and Honda have admitted yet are confident they'll have sorted.

The needless toxicity and obvious lack of knowledge behind these false statements is insane. Just proves most of this rubbish is from trolls, not true F1 fans
I feel that Red Bull Honda have over-promised and under-delivered, especially on the chassis side. The progress they were making in the second half of last year has stagnated and Red Bull is still a distant third or second with quite a significant deficit. Aren't you disappointed by that? Verstappen said it himself, even if he had qualified well he wasn't going to beat Bottas in Canada. Now I have my doubts but he certainly wasn't going to challenge the leaders.

I share the hope and excitement for the coming upgrades, but i've come to realize that the hype train sometimes goes faster than the actual car. Feel free to disagree but please be respectful.
Shingles is right, time to calm down. Advice taken.
To be honest, how they perform against Ferrari, I see impressive. This season, the overriding story is how incredibly impressive Mercedes have been regarding their chassis gains. They have made HUGE progress. This has made everyone look far worse. That's not an excuse, more an applause of Mercedes. It is their most successful season, yet the first season their power unit has truly looked second place.

Says a lot.

etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by etusch » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:10 pm

And that shows how good they are on the chassis side and can be a winner with a good but not strongest (from peak power side ) pu when you have a good chassis

ispano6
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by ispano6 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:47 pm

ME4ME wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:55 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:15 am
You obviously either don't watch the races or you only read headlines from autosport..

This "Red Bull have no wins compared to last year" nonsense drives me crazy... Why is that relevant. They have been consistently faster for a majority of the season compared with last year, even with a decreased downforce intended reg change and have been CONSIDERABLY more reliable. If they had Renault's in the back we'd of had at minimal two failures for both drivers...
Honda have made strides in power and still admit they are behind, but are confident they'll match by late season. Why are people using this against them?? They should be applauded for their progress, especially compared with Renault who are at best a match this season even with a development time advantage.

RBR have had a major PU architecture change which completely alters the rear end at a minimum. They know they are behind and are working on it. Everything people are stating as negatives are actually things RBR and Honda have admitted yet are confident they'll have sorted.

The needless toxicity and obvious lack of knowledge behind these false statements is insane. Just proves most of this rubbish is from trolls, not true F1 fans
I feel that Red Bull Honda have over-promised and under-delivered, especially on the chassis side. The progress they were making in the second half of last year has stagnated and Red Bull is still a distant third or second with quite a significant deficit. Aren't you disappointed by that? Verstappen said it himself, even if he had qualified well he wasn't going to beat Bottas in Canada. Now I have my doubts but he certainly wasn't going to challenge the leaders.

I share the hope and excitement for the coming upgrades, but i've come to realize that the hype train sometimes goes faster than the actual car. Feel free to disagree but please be respectful.
Shingles is right, time to calm down. Advice taken.
Over promised to who? You're just too high strung. Red Bull Honda is in its first year together and you expect to win championships from the get go? Can't you accept the fact Red Bull got their car wrong? Stop insinuating that they've taken a step backwards with Honda power because no one from Red Bull thinks that way. Renault powered days are over.

PhillipM
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by PhillipM » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:56 pm

I think they would have probably been faster with the Renault power unit this year, but then, you've got years of integration to go with on that side versus the first year with the Honda - the car performance will pick up next year as they get used to working with everything and change things to suit the engine and vice versa.

ME4ME
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by ME4ME » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:22 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:47 pm
Can't you accept the fact Red Bull got their car wrong?
Come on.. can't a fan be disappointed by that? Like GhostF1 alludes to in his post, part of the issue is that Mercedes doing such a superb job. Ultimately Red Bull hasn't done a good enough job and have work to do. I am not slating Honda at all, I even said so that my main disappointment was with the chassis. I love Hondas commitment, I think in time it will all pay off and make eventual success even more sweet. Untill than it's sleeves up and work throughout the night, which i'm sure they're doing.