2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Juzh
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Juzh » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:59 pm

Sieper wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:39 am
Juzh wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:21 pm
Unlikely verstappen would be able to hold off bottas on fresh rubber and inherently faster car at the end, so I don't believe P2 was on the cards today. He might be able to do so if he got the job done on leclerc much sooner, but not after already losing tons of time behind other slower cars.

What was really interesting is how bad ferrari was on the main straight up until T3. Not sure what was going on there but the bulls were gaining bus lengths on them in that section.

Verstappen was also suffering with low battery during his entire fight with leclerc, he was told on numerous occasions to hold back and turn engine into mode 8 to top up the battery and then have a proper go at him. Instead he was apparently using way too much overtake button, which drained the battery too early to finish off the attack.
After he was let go by gasly and before his fight with vettel he actually was using mode 8 and came behind him with battery fully charged. Boost (free loading the engine aka some sort of quali mode?) and overtake button (dumping the battery) combined made the ferrari a total sitting duck on the hangar straight as a result. Vettel couldn't do anything at all to prevent it and was totally powerless to defend himself, something which in the past would be unthinkable.

I think had verstappen acted in the same way in his scrap with leclerc he would be able to overtake him much earlier and then maybe have a fight with bottas at the end. A lesson for the future perhaps.
There was no job to be done earlier on Leclerc, in Verstappens own words “way to dangerous”. Leclerc was also driving different lines through maggots & becketts (like he was doing all weekend, also in qualy) slower through but faster on the gas coming out. That was what prevented Verstappen making the pass at the end of hangar straight. That combined with the turbo lag that they apparently were not allowed (or couldn’t) remap intime for the race. Vettel drove the same lines and was a sitting duck. That battery issue was a one time that I heared that. Just making sure he had a full one on the critical moment, as, I am sure, leclerc was also doing.

Hopefully they get the turbo mapping even better for next race.
No mate. He was told repeatedly to back off and top up the battery to be in a better position to attack. At some point he was even instructed to go to mode 9, which is an even more severe battery charging mode (more clipping on the straights). This happened like 7 or 8 times during his battle with leclerc, until he was finally told to stop using the overtake button on every single straight, otherwise the battery was never going to charge sufficently.. He was topping out at ~320 kmh in leclerc's slipstream on hangar straight, and then vs vettel he was doing 335 kmh even when pulling out of slipstream. Difference was obvious. I will post extended onboard highlights of verstappen's race with telemetry and team radio soon and you'll see what i'm talking about.

Sieper
51
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Sieper » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:13 pm

I’ve since heared that indeed several times he had the battery not full enough. Was going by the TV broadcast. Well If indeed by his own doing (likely) he will have been stubborn enough to only learn from that next race (or indeed already with Vettel). But to my eyes Leclerc was also clearly using another line, might be cool to compare. In Any case, Thanks for taking the trouble to post those telemetry clips. Always highly appreciated.

TNTHead
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by TNTHead » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:24 pm

Being compared to Max makes you immediately look mediocre. But the positive side for Gasly i see is that he finally shows a positive development curve, as a driver. We could actually see him near or in the battles on tv! That means he in the mix, or almost in.

If he can develop himselve as a good wingman like Bottas, or driving chicane if you like, it's beneficial for the team and/or Max and he may have a future at RB. Next races will he crucial for him.

Polarit
0
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:18 am

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Polarit » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:56 am

First season for Gasly... He needs to improve but young drivers need time to adjust and Red Bull are very Max focused so it will be hard for him.

Danny Ric was quick and seeing his battle with Max was great so Gasly was stepping into big shoes. If he doesn't start to show some character though, like Kvyat he'll be moved on quickly but I suspect Red Bull already know they're going to have a number one with Max and a backup driver. Max isn't the type to share power, especially now he's got it all to himself.

He'll use that to his advantage so he stays at Red Bull because with Lewis in the end of his career that Mercedes seat is a golden ticket potentially.

Juzh
329
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Juzh » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:31 am

As promised, Verstappen's race onboard highlights with telemetry. This one is a real thrill.
Remember, if you're on mobile streamable will not give you full bitrate, it's much better if you download the clips directly to your phone from the google drive folder. I'm uploading stuff now, so it shouldn't be too long till it's all up there.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Third and fifth parts are the best ones, but i wouldn't miss any of them.

part 1/5 - race start
https://streamable.com/g69md


part 2/5 - leclerc battle first stint
https://streamable.com/k19iw


part 3/5 - leclerc battle second stint
https://streamable.com/s72zk


part 4/5 - SC restart
https://streamable.com/cg9dw


part 5/5 - vettel battle
https://streamable.com/svep9

etusch
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Location: Turkey

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by etusch » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:32 am

TNTHead wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:24 pm
Being compared to Max makes you immediately look mediocre. But the positive side for Gasly i see is that he finally shows a positive development curve, as a driver. We could actually see him near or in the battles on tv! That means he in the mix, or almost in.

If he can develop himselve as a good wingman like Bottas, or driving chicane if you like, it's beneficial for the team and/or Max and he may have a future at RB. Next races will he crucial for him.
Experience, yes it is important. But remember first race of Verstappen. He won it against experienced team mate who has been driving the car already for a long time.
Gasly is a fast driver. His problem is not driving fast. His problem is concentration and duration.
I am suspecting if he were aware of it when leclerc was just near of him. He lost concentration when he is under pressure of a rival. It was acceptable if it happened when he is driving alone.
He was lost his concentration last part of last season too.

loner
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Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by loner » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:42 am

again thnx Juzh
mate that part 5 was better than rush movie :mrgreen:
para bellum.

Morteza
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Morteza » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:55 am

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

nacho
9
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:38 am

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by nacho » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:08 am

Exactly, maybe they can find a better one, I would think they can compare the data to Albon and Kvyjat, but atm things are going the right way for the first time this season, I hope they will see if it works out.

Wouter
135
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Wouter » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:21 am

Juzh wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:31 am
As promised, Verstappen's race onboard highlights with telemetry. This one is a real thrill.
......
Thanks again @Juzh.
I posted them on a different forum, stating your name, if you don't mind.

Juzh
329
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Juzh » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:39 am

Wouter wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:21 am
Juzh wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:31 am
As promised, Verstappen's race onboard highlights with telemetry. This one is a real thrill.
......
Thanks again @Juzh.
I posted them on a different forum, stating your name, if you don't mind.
sure, no problem. mind sharing which forum it is?

Wouter
135
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Wouter » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:21 am

Juzh wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:39 am
Wouter wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:21 am
Juzh wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:31 am
As promised, Verstappen's race onboard highlights with telemetry. This one is a real thrill.
......
Thanks again @Juzh.
I posted them on a different forum, stating your name, if you don't mind.
sure, no problem. mind sharing which forum it is?
The forum of Verstappen.nl. :wink:

https://forum.verstappen.nl/index.php?t ... #msg_27409

yelistener
15
User avatar
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:55 am

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by yelistener » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:19 pm

Juzh wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:31 am
As promised, Verstappen's race onboard highlights with telemetry. This one is a real thrill.
Remember, if you're on mobile streamable will not give you full bitrate, it's much better if you download the clips directly to your phone from the google drive folder. I'm uploading stuff now, so it shouldn't be too long till it's all up there.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Third and fifth parts are the best ones, but i wouldn't miss any of them.

part 1/5 - race start
https://streamable.com/g69md
https://streamable.com/g69md

part 2/5 - leclerc battle first stint
https://streamable.com/k19iw
https://streamable.com/k19iw

part 3/5 - leclerc battle second stint
https://streamable.com/s72zk
https://streamable.com/s72zk

part 4/5 - SC restart
https://streamable.com/cg9dw
https://streamable.com/cg9dw

part 5/5 - vettel battle
https://streamable.com/svep9
https://streamable.com/svep9
Beautiful work. Max even in dirty air from Vettel in front still took Copse with just a little lift minimum speed 284km/h. IIRC in 2016 it was sth like 260km/h in Q3. :lol:

Juzh, I have two shameless requests.
1) Lewis' first 5 laps with telemetry (massively attacking Bottas)
2) Bottas' fastest lap with telemetry if it was on T-cam

maguetox
17
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:46 am

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by maguetox » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:46 pm

etusch wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:32 am
TNTHead wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:24 pm
Being compared to Max makes you immediately look mediocre. But the positive side for Gasly i see is that he finally shows a positive development curve, as a driver. We could actually see him near or in the battles on tv! That means he in the mix, or almost in.

If he can develop himselve as a good wingman like Bottas, or driving chicane if you like, it's beneficial for the team and/or Max and he may have a future at RB. Next races will he crucial for him.
Experience, yes it is important. But remember first race of Verstappen. He won it against experienced team mate who has been driving the car already for a long time.
Gasly is a fast driver. His problem is not driving fast. His problem is concentration and duration.
I am suspecting if he were aware of it when leclerc was just near of him. He lost concentration when he is under pressure of a rival. It was acceptable if it happened when he is driving alone.
He was lost his concentration last part of last season too.
Gasly made a good race because, if I recall correctly, since this past GP, he had Max setups at his disposal to see if he can improve its performance, what he did, so, in my mind, Gasly in not adding something representative to the team right now., unfortunate for him.

shingles
4
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:59 am

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by shingles » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:02 pm

maguetox wrote:
etusch wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:32 am
TNTHead wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:24 pm
Being compared to Max makes you immediately look mediocre. But the positive side for Gasly i see is that he finally shows a positive development curve, as a driver. We could actually see him near or in the battles on tv! That means he in the mix, or almost in.

If he can develop himselve as a good wingman like Bottas, or driving chicane if you like, it's beneficial for the team and/or Max and he may have a future at RB. Next races will he crucial for him.
Experience, yes it is important. But remember first race of Verstappen. He won it against experienced team mate who has been driving the car already for a long time.
Gasly is a fast driver. His problem is not driving fast. His problem is concentration and duration.
I am suspecting if he were aware of it when leclerc was just near of him. He lost concentration when he is under pressure of a rival. It was acceptable if it happened when he is driving alone.
He was lost his concentration last part of last season too.
Gasly made a good race because, if I recall correctly, since this past GP, he had Max setups at his disposal to see if he can improve its performance, what he did, so, in my mind, Gasly in not adding something representative to the team right now., unfortunate for him.
My opinion is Gasley just need to keep scoring as mich as possible. In order for RBR to win constructor (at some point), both drivers have to score as much as possible. Gasley just needs to make sure he can be in the top 6 in all races, then he is contributing to the team. The car is clearly capable of being up front. If Gasley can’t stay in front of the mid field, then it’s going to be a problem for him.