2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Spec 4 and Redbull updates can make Redbull competitve enough that they won't need it. They seems that they found the path

Karim28
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 18:36
Spec 4 and Redbull updates can make Redbull competitve enough that they won't need it. They seems that they found the path
May be with Spec4 and RB updates they will be competitive in every race but also the others develop their performance
Merc&Fer&Renault will introduce their engines in Monza or Spa too.
Also Mercedes&Ferrari will keep bringing chassis-updates in Germany and so on.
It's all about the speed of developing and gaining much more the others' gains.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Strategies for Germany. Start on the soft compound until you have a gap to midfield, pit at exactly that moment for hards, and run the rest of the way. If the Red Bull is in fact faster, those 20 seconds in clear air will be enough for Max to get the undercut.

If the other teams go on the same strategy, remain out and use Gasly to block/slow down and help retain track position/deter the undercut.

Vettel performs well in Germany, he may be faster than Leclerc this weekend, it will be very important to start ahead or clear the Ferrari's quickly. I honestly feel Verstappen has a fast enough race car as is to challenge Hamilton. Although Mercedes is said to be bringing a serious update for Hockenheim, and I hope that it backfires, or that Red Bull can match it.

Although a safety car can make a mess of things, and the nature of the circuit means someone will inevitably tangle, lose and trigger one.

I'm sure there are still a few tenths to find in calibrating the power unit to the improved chassis, and to Verstappen's driving.
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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Karim28 wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 18:53
etusch wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 18:36
Spec 4 and Redbull updates can make Redbull competitve enough that they won't need it. They seems that they found the path
May be with Spec4 and RB updates they will be competitive in every race but also the others develop their performance
Merc&Fer&Renault will introduce their engines in Monza or Spa too.
Also Mercedes&Ferrari will keep bringing chassis-updates in Germany and so on.
It's all about the speed of developing and gaining much more the others' gains.
..and Redbull and Honda looks fast in that race

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Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I think if Honda wants to bring a 5th Spec this season, it may be on the last races. And, giving the way is it going now, I think only STR will have it. Because it's probable that RBR will be fighting for 2nd WCC with Ferrari, and that means a lot of money. So not sure if they would want to get an "extra extra" penalty. It will depend on how the season goes I guess

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HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I do not want to create controversy. But how slow were the Ferrari in the race.. :lol:

It is very difficult to overtake Ferrari thanks to its speed in straight. Even Mercedes could have problems behind them. And even so, Max manages to overcome them but with many risks and blows.
RB Honda needs to improve the Quali

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HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Marti_EF3 wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 20:05
I think if Honda wants to bring a 5th Spec this season, it may be on the last races. And, giving the way is it going now, I think only STR will have it. Because it's probable that RBR will be fighting for 2nd WCC with Ferrari, and that means a lot of money. So not sure if they would want to get an "extra extra" penalty. It will depend on how the season goes I guess
There are still eleven races left. RB can not finish with 4 engines a year, it's impossible. The best thing to do is to think about what GP to penalize for the fifth engine.

Alexf1
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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5 engines needed indeed. Verstappen was so many laps in a fight for the last 2 GPs that I doubt the engine has spent much time in low race modes. If we can assume that this spec has the same lifespan as spec2 (6 weekends Tanabe said?) then they will need some quiet races and spec2 on friday to compensate. Otherwise it says boom in Spa

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Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Then, the only suitable race to take it and take a penalty (but not use the PU on the race) is Sochi.

You don't want to have a penalty at Japan, of course. And México seems another race with high win probability. And you can't wait much more. So if the Spec 4 is scheduled for Spa/Monza. Use it until Japan (taking penalty for the 5th spec on Sochi) and then bring the new upgraded PU at full power during Suzuka GP.

maguetox
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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HPD wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 20:10
I do not want to create controversy. But how slow were the Ferrari in the race.. :lol:

It is very difficult to overtake Ferrari thanks to its speed in straight. Even Mercedes could have problems behind them. And even so, Max manages to overcome them but with many risks and blows.
RB Honda needs to improve the Quali
The improvements for the qualy mode are really urgent, but they need to improve the energy management on race, if you listen the on board videos on Britain GP in several communication between Max and his engineer they were talking about battery were not fully charge to be used to pass Lecler or Vettel.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I deleted this post.
Last edited by Wouter on 17 Jul 2019, 21:52, edited 1 time in total.
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nzjrs
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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maguetox wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 21:12
HPD wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 20:10
I do not want to create controversy. But how slow were the Ferrari in the race.. :lol:

It is very difficult to overtake Ferrari thanks to its speed in straight. Even Mercedes could have problems behind them. And even so, Max manages to overcome them but with many risks and blows.
RB Honda needs to improve the Quali
The improvements for the qualy mode are really urgent, but they need to improve the energy management on race, if you listen the on board videos on Britain GP in several communication between Max and his engineer they were talking about battery were not fully charge to be used to pass Lecler or Vettel.
Perhaps you have a sample bias? I listened to many drivers on-board and I don't find Max/Engineer talk more about battery state than the others.

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Pyrone89
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Marti_EF3 wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 20:46
Then, the only suitable race to take it and take a penalty (but not use the PU on the race) is Sochi.

You don't want to have a penalty at Japan, of course. And México seems another race with high win probability. And you can't wait much more. So if the Spec 4 is scheduled for Spa/Monza. Use it until Japan (taking penalty for the 5th spec on Sochi) and then bring the new upgraded PU at full power during Suzuka GP.
Sochi is only a month (2 GP’s) after The Italian GP. Would make no sense and it is not feasible to have a new spec so soon again. I think it is a tough one as all the races after Sochi were good tracks for RB in 2018. So perhaps instead of a spec 5 they can run test spec of 2020 in Abu Dhabi to test it (they cannot use it in the post season test unless raced in Abu Dhabi).
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Jaisonas
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Red Bull overtakes Ferrari: Second power behind Mercedes - AMuS
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... mercedes/
Translation from Reddit
The GP England brought Red Bull places four and five. It could have been more if Max Verstappen hadn't been torpedoed by Sebastian Vettel. Red Bull overtook Ferrari at that speed in the race.

Red Bull is making progress. The RB15 is getting better and better. The development stages of the last few weeks are working. In France Honda still had to drive with throttled power. Out of fear of knocking damage. In Austria, however, the Honda V6 was allowed to show its teeth. In race trim, the Japanese engine is no longer far away from the competing products. Max Verstappen won the race.

At Silverstone the Red Bull again showed an appealing performance. Max Verstappen would have landed on the podium if Sebastian Vettel hadn't swept him into the gravel on the 37th lap. So positions four and five jumped out. That makes 22 points. Seven more than Ferrari. The gap in the Team World Championship dropped to 52 points.

For the first time this year Pierre Gasly placed in front of Stappen - if only because his teammate was cleared. "He was a different driver this weekend. It worked for him from the first practice session," Red Bull's team boss Christian Horner summed up with satisfaction. Head of Sport Helmut Marko attested the Frenchman an impeccable performance. "There are 100 small changes that have brought me forward," says Gasly himself.

As fast as Bottas

Only before the race there was excitement about the dark blue cars. On the grid, the mechanics changed the rear wings on both cars. "We noticed a crack in Max's wing. Pierre's car also showed a rupture. Therefore we had to react.

Verstappen could have even landed in second place later. Valtteri Bottas had to pit a second time, while the Dutchman could drive through. But the Vettel shot cost the fourth podium this season. The 21-year-old quickly finished the accident. Verstappen knows: This year he won't be able to win the title against the overpowering Mercedes. After ten races he is already 87 points behind world championship leader Hamilton.

Red Bull is already thinking about 2020. Then at the latest the gap to the class leader should be closed. That's what our own claim demands. This demands engine partner Honda from himself and from the team. Red Bull still runs the risk of losing Stappen. An exit clause spirits through the Energy Station.

Any progress with the car is welcome. Because it shows the boy wonder that the subscription world champion of the years 2010 to 2013 is going up after a mixed start to the season. "We had the speed of Mercedes in the race. At least from Bottas," they say at Red Bull. "Hamiton was too fast," says Verstappen.

The aero upgrades since the French GP have stabilised the RB15. Especially the new front wing, which made its debut in Austria. Since then, engineers have found it easier to control the air vortices generated at the front and guide them around the car. This makes the downforce at the rear more stable. Pierre Gasly promptly trusted his car. The 23-year-old was only given the new wing at Silverstone. In Austria, Max Verstappen had it exclusively after three of them went off on the aggressive curbstones.

New engine after summer break

"We have unleashed the potential of the car," Horner is happy about the good last two races. "We're now well positioned in fast and slow corners." Even Silverstone is no longer a fearful circuit for Red Bull. On 4,595 of the 5,891 metres the drivers are fully on the gas. That's where the engine comes in.

In qualifying, Red Bull Honda with its party mode has not the punch of the competition. But in the race, the Austro-Japanese connection is able to drive at high power on a permanent basis. In addition, the RB15 handles the tyres gently. Red Bull has therefore overtaken Ferrari in race trim.

"Our Quali-Pace is better than our speed in the race", Ferraris Charles Leclerc notes. "We have to work on that. Red Bull is better than us over the distance and keeps the tyres alive better". Even Ferrari team boss Mattia Binotto has to admit. "After qualifying we had calculated more. Our race space wasn't good enough, but Red Bull is celebrating. "It was incredible how we could follow the Ferrari through Maggots, Becketts, Chapel. That's the highspeed meander at the back of the track. "Unfortunately, we were rarely able to show our true speed. We were behind a Ferrari for 99 percent of the race," says Horner. Red Bull is already fastest in another discipline. At Silverstone they changed tyres in 1.91 seconds. And the development steps at engine partner Honda also come quickly. It is said that the next expansion stage is already finished. It should bring about 25 HP, and Red Bull Honda thereby on the level of Mercedes lift. But the title favourite will add to the list itself. The revised Honda engine will be used after the summer break. Either in Spa or in Monza. "That depends on whether Honda brings further development this year. We also have to budget for our engine parts because of the impending penalties," explains Red Bull's Sports Director Marko.

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IvailoStefanovBG
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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maguetox wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 21:12
HPD wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 20:10
I do not want to create controversy. But how slow were the Ferrari in the race.. :lol:

It is very difficult to overtake Ferrari thanks to its speed in straight. Even Mercedes could have problems behind them. And even so, Max manages to overcome them but with many risks and blows.
RB Honda needs to improve the Quali
The improvements for the qualy mode are really urgent, but they need to improve the energy management on race, if you listen the on board videos on Britain GP in several communication between Max and his engineer they were talking about battery were not fully charge to be used to pass Lecler or Vettel.
Max was using "overtake" button too often.That is why battery was empty.

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