2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by digitalrurouni » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:26 pm

I have to admit I'm incredibly pleased to see red bull up there. Very curious to see how many PUs they end up taking this year. I am under the impression the Honda is incredibly resilient because it's not been used very gently at all by Max. Exciting times!! Bodes well for next year!

Pyrone89
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Pyrone89 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:49 am

digitalrurouni wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:26 pm
I have to admit I'm incredibly pleased to see red bull up there. Very curious to see how many PUs they end up taking this year. I am under the impression the Honda is incredibly resilient because it's not been used very gently at all by Max. Exciting times!! Bodes well for next year!
Dont jinx it

HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by HPD » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:28 pm

I know it will be difficult, but Red Bull needs the second place in the WCC.
Mathematically we still have many possibilities.

HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by HPD » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:46 pm

Honda F1 technical director Toyoharu Tanabe admitted he was surprised to be so closer to the leading pace at Silverstone and said it could suggest the Red Bull-Honda package is not as far from Mercedes as it thought.

“Maybe, but we need to understand which corner or which straight we have a better lap time or speed,” Tanabe told Motorsport.com. “Then maybe we can analyse what is good here and what was wrong, what was the deficit in the past seven or eight races.

“It’s not very easy to tell, it looks like the gap got closer compared to previous races – not only the race, but also qualifying. But we have not an easy answer yet.”

“The starting point was not too bad compared to last year’s first race with the new spec,” said Tanabe. “It means we’ve learned a lot from last year, and the calibration quality we improved from the initial running. We still have areas to learn at the track after the race.
“In practice situations and real race situations. we could learn a small bit where we could improve our performance. In France, Austria, Britain, we have an improvement.”
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... l/4497635/

muramasa
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by muramasa » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:17 pm

Juzh wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:59 pm
No mate. He was told repeatedly to back off and top up the battery to be in a better position to attack. At some point he was even instructed to go to mode 9, which is an even more severe battery charging mode (more clipping on the straights). This happened like 7 or 8 times during his battle with leclerc, until he was finally told to stop using the overtake button on every single straight, otherwise the battery was never going to charge sufficently.. He was topping out at ~320 kmh in leclerc's slipstream on hangar straight, and then vs vettel he was doing 335 kmh even when pulling out of slipstream. Difference was obvious. I will post extended onboard highlights of verstappen's race with telemetry and team radio soon and you'll see what i'm talking about.
Mode, boost and overtake are totally separate things though.

If you deduce from Quali mode indicator and dial arrangement, pluses and minuses for the Race mode should also mean plus for more power and minus for less, so perhaps;

mode 1_Q+ : absolute maximum power ICE (so called Quali mode) and max e-boost max deployment for Q3 or Q3/2
mode 2_Q : sub-max power ICE (lesser Quali mode) and max e-boost max deployment for Q1/2

mode 3_START : race start mode

mode 4_RACE-- : least ICE power or ICE saving mode during race
mode 5_RACE- : less ICE power during race
mode 6_RACE : standard race mode
mode 7_(blank) : maybe standard race mode plus alpha
mode 8_RACE+ : more ICE power during race
mode 9_RACE++ : most ICE power during race

OT: maybe overtake mode, most race ICE power with opening wastegate and most/max e-boost and most/max deployment (so no or min MGU-H charge ala quali)
(blue) : not sure
FORM : maybe mode for formation lap
(blank): not sure
SC : maybe for safety car

Boost +- is perhaps about shifting between "more charge / less deployment" and "less charge / more deployment"
Prioritizing charging means less deployment so you want more ICE to compensate, also more ICE means faster charging.


BTW "Engine xx" is totally different from engine modes, looks like engine 11 or engine 8 or engine 14 are about fundamental, itemized engine regulation/management stuffs like, possibly ignition timing, turbo setting, sensor threshold etc, which is why it rarely gets tweaked. So it's not like engine 11 itself is about max performance.
Then there is "position xx (for "engine xx") that's yet another different thing, most likely adjustment in each specific engine setting.


Image

Image

https://www.alamy.com/silverstone-uk-11 ... 14008.html

https://f1grandprix.motorionline.com/fo ... EDI/f1-37/

loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by loner » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:22 pm

can't they make a touch screen steering wheel with voice command attached by wire to mic in helmet :D
para bellum.

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:11 pm

spin1/2 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:02 am
lio007 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:17 pm
Ah...I can't resist: wonder what Cyril and McLaren are thinking now.
It's when you dumped your ex for holding you back, but it turns out you were holding them back. :lol: :wtf:
Think they saying it was the right move for McLaren, necessary evil. McLaren are 100% faster than at any time with Honda. It was "expected" that with the RBR chassis that RBR/Honda would win races. RBR racing has fewer points and have won fewer races that they did at this same point last year with Renault. The odds are against them matching the 4 wins with Renault in 2018.

So wonder what RBR are saying internally that they're not saying publicly.

gokarter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by gokarter » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:28 pm

Think they saying it was the right move for McLaren, necessary evil. McLaren are 100% faster than at any time with Honda. It was "expected" that with the RBR chassis that RBR/Honda would win races. RBR racing has fewer points and have won fewer races that they did at this same point last year with Renault. The odds are against them matching the 4 wins with Renault in 2018.

So wonder what RBR are saying internally that they're not saying publicly.

redbull is much happier with honda than with renault. You cant compare gasly performance with ricccardo. riccardo beat max and outqualified max a number of times and won some races by his own.they match up equally well. This year redbull only has max to get most of the points with gasly struggling big time.I still think they should try to get albon in and try or get hulk for next year for redbull. no engine failures for redbull and better performance by honda compared to renaults. last year silverstone redbull was 0.7 away from pole this is year 0.2 or less if not for turbo lag. Redbull have now a partner who can win a championship in 2020.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by NL_Fer » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:12 pm

Gazly was fine in UK, speed, tyres, racing, no problem.

Wazari
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Wazari » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:36 pm

loner wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:22 pm
can't they make a touch screen steering wheel with voice command attached by wire to mic in helmet :D
I don't think touch screen would be ideal in this situation. They are trying to make the changes a driver having to make as foolproof as possible. Having been in the current generation simulator, IMO it is a chaotic, violent environment and between the G-forces, bumps and wearing gloves I don't think a touch screen would serve too well. There are over 50 settings a driver can change while driving and that is why almost everything is a two-step process. Just a way to confirm the change. For example, the Mode button gives a driver access to typically 20+ settings that are pre-programmed primarily for deployment and harvesting mappings. To go from "Mode 6 to Mode 7" requires the driver to turn the dial to the "+" position that has a detent and push the button once. Push it twice and it will go Mode 8, etc. The "-" position does the opposite. Simply turning the dial does nothing. That is reason why there is a blank position between the "+"and "Race","-" that does nothing as to try to prevent further driver error.

As far as voice command, there are times I have come close to throwing my Alexa out the window.
If you can make the opposition flinch, you have already won.

Datco
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Datco » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:42 pm

diffuser wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:11 pm
spin1/2 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:02 am
lio007 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:17 pm
Ah...I can't resist: wonder what Cyril and McLaren are thinking now.
It's when you dumped your ex for holding you back, but it turns out you were holding them back. :lol: :wtf:
Think they saying it was the right move for McLaren, necessary evil. McLaren are 100% faster than at any time with Honda. It was "expected" that with the RBR chassis that RBR/Honda would win races. RBR racing has fewer points and have won fewer races that they did at this same point last year with Renault. The odds are against them matching the 4 wins with Renault in 2018.

So wonder what RBR are saying internally that they're not saying publicly.
Merc is in a different league this year, the most dominant in F1 history. So you can't compare last year to this year. What you can say is that Honda is the only other PU manufacture to win other than Merc.

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:45 pm

Wazari wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:36 pm
loner wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:22 pm
can't they make a touch screen steering wheel with voice command attached by wire to mic in helmet :D
I don't think touch screen would be ideal in this situation. They are trying to make the changes a driver having to make as foolproof as possible. Having been in the current generation simulator, IMO it is a chaotic, violent environment and between the G-forces, bumps and wearing gloves I don't think a touch screen would serve too well. There are over 50 settings a driver can change while driving and that is why almost everything is a two-step process. Just a way to confirm the change. For example, the Mode button gives a driver access to typically 20+ settings that are pre-programmed primarily for deployment and harvesting mappings. To go from "Mode 6 to Mode 7" requires the driver to turn the dial to the "+" position that has a detent and push the button once. Push it twice and it will go Mode 8, etc. The "-" position does the opposite. Simply turning the dial does nothing. That is reason why there is a blank position between the "+"and "Race","-" that does nothing as to try to prevent further driver error.

As far as voice command, there are times I have come close to throwing my Alexa out the window.
my wife has the same issue....
and remind voice activations can't barely be done because of the vibration while driving
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Wouter » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:15 pm

Wazari wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:36 pm
loner wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:22 pm
can't they make a touch screen steering wheel with voice command attached by wire to mic in helmet :D
I don't think touch screen would be ideal in this situation. They are trying to make the changes a driver having to make as foolproof as possible. Having been in the current generation simulator, IMO it is a chaotic, violent environment and between the G-forces, bumps and wearing gloves I don't think a touch screen would serve too well. There are over 50 settings a driver can change while driving and that is why almost everything is a two-step process. Just a way to confirm the change. For example, the Mode button gives a driver access to typically 20+ settings that are pre-programmed primarily for deployment and harvesting mappings. To go from "Mode 6 to Mode 7" requires the driver to turn the dial to the "+" position that has a detent and push the button once. Push it twice and it will go Mode 8, etc. The "-" position does the opposite. Simply turning the dial does nothing. That is reason why there is a blank position between the "+"and "Race","-" that does nothing as to try to prevent further driver error.

As far as voice command, there are times I have come close to throwing my Alexa out the window.

Thank you for this correct explanation Wazari-san.

muramasa
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by muramasa » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:18 pm

Changing MODE is just about turning the dial, Position for ENGINE and STRAT are changed by operating buttons, all evident from those onboards.

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:45 pm

gokarter wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:28 pm
Think they saying it was the right move for McLaren, necessary evil. McLaren are 100% faster than at any time with Honda. It was "expected" that with the RBR chassis that RBR/Honda would win races. RBR racing has fewer points and have won fewer races that they did at this same point last year with Renault. The odds are against them matching the 4 wins with Renault in 2018.

So wonder what RBR are saying internally that they're not saying publicly.

redbull is much happier with honda than with renault. You cant compare gasly performance with ricccardo. riccardo beat max and outqualified max a number of times and won some races by his own.they match up equally well. This year redbull only has max to get most of the points with gasly struggling big time.I still think they should try to get albon in and try or get hulk for next year for redbull. no engine failures for redbull and better performance by honda compared to renaults. last year silverstone redbull was 0.7 away from pole this is year 0.2 or less if not for turbo lag. Redbull have now a partner who can win a championship in 2020.

Yeah, I doubt that. Merc are on cruise control. They can probably do the minimum and still be very competitive next year. Everyone is waiting for the 2021 regs to drop. Many teams will switch much of their resources to the 2021 regs early(late 2019). It'll be interest to see how much resources Ferrari put into next years car when none of that car will apply to 2021.