2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

[drunkf1fan]

Sainz didn't distance himself, he got a loan but didn't beg to be released and seemingly wanted the RBR seat but trying to push out of hte program probably made them feel like he'd jump ship given the opportunity so wasn't worth investing more time in.

Kvyat didn't have any time wasted nor is he a driver despite their best efforts. Kvyat got moved up to RBR because they considered him worthy of doing so, he was plenty fast and drove well. They also got him into F1 for the same reasons. Demotion was a very painful pill to swallow but wasn't done out of malice, it was done out of seeing that Verstappen had the potential to match or maybe even beat Hamilton, Ricciardo didn't show that potential and while Kvyat had more room to improve he didn't show that level of talent either. RBR had very little choice but to promote Verstappen to keep hold of him. That's how sport goes sometimes, you can be great but someone better comes along and the team need them more than you.

For as much as I rated Kvyat's time at RBR highly and I think he did very well, after his return to TR he performed very poorly, at times miserably. He had reason to sure, but he also could have taken it on the chin and reacted better and driven great, had he done so he'd have kept his seat or maybe had the chance to move to a different team than TR. As said the demotion was tough, but these things happen, Kvyat reacting as badly as he did was while unfortunate and understandable, still his fault and it's those poor performance that led to him being replaced by Gasly/Hartley. Hartley wasn't brought up because he was better than Kvyat or they were desperate to give him a shot, it's because Kvyat was underperforming so badly at that stage that they had few other options.

kvyat is now driving very well again but had he driven like this after the demotion he'd never have left F1.

[Manoah2u]

The RedBull Young Drivers Academy: How much Red Bull invested in their drivers.

https://www.business-sport.es/the-redbu ... rs-academy

https://cdn.website-editor.net/5eb5a8a4 ... /rbyda.jpg

amazing to see how little they needed to invest in Max and how much return he brings.

that said,
the usual stories appear again, now it's claimed RedBull approached Alonso themselves and Alonso turned down a role to replace gasly as far back as Britain GP as he didn't want to be an 'interlude' driver.
additionally, that means he also turned down a role for 2020.
I doubt this claim on a variety of points: Marko clearly stated 'NO' when approached literally about Alonso. Then again, you could always say that he said that because Alonso himself turned the role down.
But, it makes little sense for Alonso to step in mid-season in a car and team he knows nothing about bar Honda. And to be next to Max on top of his game right now, in a car which will at best grant him a win, but still with half a season over and as such, half the points able to take. I personally believe Honda themselves put forward the idea of placing Alonso, and as such, that possibility has been 'investigated' but nothing concrete.

https://www.mundodeportivo.com/motor/f1 ... ula-1.html

what i personally do wonder is if this isn't a mistake by Alonso. RBR has the best cards on the table for 2020 to really take on Mercedes, and it would be legendary to see Alonso return to F1 and beat Mercedes and Verstappen.
Then again, just as much, he could find himself once again in Ferrari-like circumstances of having a car that just misses out and then also get beaten by Max would only damage his reputation.

Perhaps he ends up at Mercedes next year to replace Bottas after all Nah just kidding, Alonso stated he isn't interested in F1 right now, and besides, Merc / Toto wouldn't pair him at all to Hamilton.

I am happy Albon is in though. very excited to see him go about in the RB.

[JordanMugen]

Verstappen had the potential to match or maybe even beat Hamilton, Ricciardo didn't show that potential

Ricciardo didn't show the potential to match or beat Hamilton, despite beating 4 times world champion Vettel by three wins to zero? I must say your analysis sounds a bit suspect!

Verstappen's promotion has nothing to do with Ricciardo being an inadequate number one driver IMO. Rather, it is to do with having two number one drivers being better than having one!

[drunkf1fan]

Vettel isn't as good as Hamilton, frankly he's not even that close imo. Also beating someone in one season doesn't really add up to much. Kvyat also beat Ricciardo, so if beating your team mate is the complete and ultimate measurement then Ricciardo wasn't even as good as Kvyat and at the same time Verstappen beat Ricciardo as well. What about Rosberg beating Hamilton, though we know how that happened. The reality is that good and bad years happen for almost every driver, and every footballer, and every tennis player and every accountant, engineer, etc, etc so beating a team mate in a single season doesn't prove anything directly.

What I saw with Ricciardo was a guy who in the highest downforce car, the best brakes and usually off the pace enough to not really be in for wins so always took the very aggressive tire strategy, pitting late and banging through the field late in a race with better tires, brakes, downforce made some great passes.... but that same driver in a worse car reversed into Kvyat, kept going off track in France trying to make passes and that the equipment for me made him look better than people rated him. Realistically what being a four time world champion shows is that Vettel was better than Webber but not much more than that.

Also the simple fact that Ricciardo beat Vettel, even if we assume that Ricciardo has higher potential than Vettel, that doesn't mean that Kvyat and Verstappen don't have higher potential than Ricciardo. Verstappen from pretty much day one showed a level of talent, pace, way he drove, moves he pulled off and improvement race on race that implied he was something special. Ricciardo always looked good, but I never saw anything truly amazing in his driving.

Also for me the most fundamental part of Hamilton's brilliance is relentless, unyielding, brilliant race pace, with imo a car setup for purely race pace that he still makes look epically fast in qualifying. Ricciardo always had qualifying pace, but his race pace hasn't ever really been very special. In that RBR it's all about strategy, a slower car, better tires. Take China last year he was 2 places behind Max, not showing anything special pace wise and only won because the RBRs with nothing to lose chose the pit under the safety car and blew away the others in race pace easily. Max was still ahead but made a mistake passing Hamilton. Before the safety car he was nowhere. Malaysia 2017 he was 30 seconds behind Max, Japan, 16 seconds or so iirc before Hamilton started holding up Max. Last two USA races Max came through the pack, was in clean air and gaining on the leaders, almost won the race last year while before his engine failure Ricciardo was dropping back from the leaders and didn't ever look close to challenging for a podium. In 2018 Max was directly behind and catching Ricciardo very fast. Mexico last year, race pace is where Ricciardo never looked particularly special and that's the difference between the very best and just very good drivers. On that note no, I never saw Ricciardo as ever matching Hamilton even if he did beat Vettel that year.

[DChemTech]

WelI, Ric was the fastest f1 star in a reasonably priced car, so he got that going for him...

[langedweil]

WelI, Ric was the fastest f1 star in a reasonably priced car, so he got that going for him...

[diffuser]

Sainz didn't distance himself, he got a loan but didn't beg to be released and seemingly wanted the RBR seat but trying to push out of hte program probably made them feel like he'd jump ship given the opportunity so wasn't worth investing more time in.

Kvyat didn't have any time wasted nor is he a driver despite their best efforts. Kvyat got moved up to RBR because they considered him worthy of doing so, he was plenty fast and drove well. They also got him into F1 for the same reasons. Demotion was a very painful pill to swallow but wasn't done out of malice, it was done out of seeing that Verstappen had the potential to match or maybe even beat Hamilton, Ricciardo didn't show that potential and while Kvyat had more room to improve he didn't show that level of talent either. RBR had very little choice but to promote Verstappen to keep hold of him. That's how sport goes sometimes, you can be great but someone better comes along and the team need them more than you.

For as much as I rated Kvyat's time at RBR highly and I think he did very well, after his return to TR he performed very poorly, at times miserably. He had reason to sure, but he also could have taken it on the chin and reacted better and driven great, had he done so he'd have kept his seat or maybe had the chance to move to a different team than TR. As said the demotion was tough, but these things happen, Kvyat reacting as badly as he did was while unfortunate and understandable, still his fault and it's those poor performance that led to him being replaced by Gasly/Hartley. Hartley wasn't brought up because he was better than Kvyat or they were desperate to give him a shot, it's because Kvyat was underperforming so badly at that stage that they had few other options.

kvyat is now driving very well again but had he driven like this after the demotion he'd never have left F1.

Kyvat if treated right could have drove like this 3 years ago.

Didn't mean suggest Sianz left cause he didn't like RBR rather he just went looking for a better drive than STR.

[Wouter]

Red Bull Helmut Marco inspects Round 5 of Super Formula
August 17, 2019 F1 Red Bull
Helmut Marco, Red Bull's motorsport advisor, is visiting Japan and visiting Twin Ring Motegi in Tochigi, where the fifth round of Super Formula is being held.

In the Super Formula, Red Bull's training driver Patricio Oward is participating in TEAM MUGEN and Lucas Auer from B-Max Racing with motopark.

Naoki Yamamoto, who is a champion of last year and meets the conditions for obtaining a super license, is expected to run this year's F1 Japan Grand Prix FP, and runs on the Red Bull simulator. Accompanying Toro Rosso.

Naoki Yamamoto has not yet decided to start, but there is a possibility that the discussion will progress during the summer vacation.

In the qualifying on Saturday, August 17, Lucas Auer finished 4th, Yamamoto Naoki finished 8th, and Patricio Oward finished 18th.

https://f1-gate.com/redbull/f1_51304.html

[AMG.Tzan]

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... on-F1-news

Don't know if that's true...but if it is...what a shame!!
Maybe Alonso wasn't anywhere near top form right now to go up against Verstappen and that may be a sensible decision for his name!

They should have gone for Alonso straight away in the first place at the end of 2018! But Honda may not have been so happy with that decision nor would Alonso after all his experience with them!

But look how things have turned out in 2019 for Honda...it would have been great if Alonso was in the 2nd RB seat! Great both for him, the team and Formula 1!!

[DChemTech]

I disagree. Happy Alonso is not on board. Two alpha drivers would lead to conflict, alonso/Honda would lead to conflict, and while he's a great racer, he hasn't proven to be a great developer.

I really don't get why people are so insisting on seeing Alonso back on the grid. He had his time. Now it's up to a new generation.

[diffuser]

I disagree. Happy Alonso is not on board. Two alpha drivers would lead to conflict, alonso/Honda would lead to conflict, and while he's a great racer, he hasn't proven to be a great developer.

I really don't get why people are so insisting on seeing Alonso back on the grid. He had his time. Now it's up to a new generation.

Alonso still is 1 of F1s top 3 drivers is a good reason to have him back.

Agree RBR don't want Alonso.

Have you watch RBR? They always have had 2 Alphas.

[DChemTech]

I disagree. Happy Alonso is not on board. Two alpha drivers would lead to conflict, alonso/Honda would lead to conflict, and while he's a great racer, he hasn't proven to be a great developer.

I really don't get why people are so insisting on seeing Alonso back on the grid. He had his time. Now it's up to a new generation.

Alonso still is 1 of F1s top 3 drivers is a good reason to have him back.

Agree RBR don't want Alonso.

Have you watch RBR? They always have had 2 Alphas.

Sure they had 2 alphas most of the time - and that has led to clashes. On top I reckon the combi verstappen/Alonso to be potentially more explosive than earlier ones.

Also I do not disregard Alonso his skill as a top driver. But that doesn't justify the frantic speculation for his return in my view.

[diffuser]

I disagree. Happy Alonso is not on board. Two alpha drivers would lead to conflict, alonso/Honda would lead to conflict, and while he's a great racer, he hasn't proven to be a great developer.

I really don't get why people are so insisting on seeing Alonso back on the grid. He had his time. Now it's up to a new generation.

Alonso still is 1 of F1s top 3 drivers, that alone is a good reason to have him back.

Agree RBR don't want Alonso.

Have you watch RBR? They always have had 2 Alphas.

[diffuser]

I disagree. Happy Alonso is not on board. Two alpha drivers would lead to conflict, alonso/Honda would lead to conflict, and while he's a great racer, he hasn't proven to be a great developer.

I really don't get why people are so insisting on seeing Alonso back on the grid. He had his time. Now it's up to a new generation.

Alonso still is 1 of F1s top 3 drivers is a good reason to have him back.

Agree RBR don't want Alonso.

Have you watch RBR? They always have had 2 Alphas.

Sure they had 2 alphas most of the time - and that has led to clashes. On top I reckon the combi verstappen/Alonso to be potentially more explosive than earlier ones.

Also I do not disregard Alonso his skill as a top driver. But that doesn't justify the frantic speculation for his return in my view.

Agreed, I don't think he even wants to come back, inspite of what he says publically.

My point was that RBR seems to like that. They must have found that the competition between the drivers exploits more performance out of the car and is worth the occasional contact.

[McMika98]

I really don't get why people are so insisting on seeing Alonso back on the grid. He had his time. Now it's up to a new generation.

Alonso still is 1 of F1s top 3 drivers is a good reason to have him back.

Alonso's stock is way overrated. Norris last year on practice runs was putting lap times close to his quali runs. If he was in Mclaren, he would have suffered the same fate as Sainz as in getting spanked by a rookie teenager. Sainz is as good a racer as Alonso. The new gens are a breath of fresh air, id happily watch them then the old timer.