2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Jolle
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Jolle » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:52 am

Introducing a fourth PU in the pools don't seem to be a big problem. Monza would be ideal. Without penalties they probably will be fifth and sixth, if they have to start from the back probably the same.

Alexf1
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Alexf1 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:54 am

I think its about when to add a 5th to the pool.

lio007
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by lio007 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:00 pm

HondaPOD wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:25 am
Honda facing "very complicated" Red Bull penalty call
The question is when you will change the PU keeping in mind these 3 points:
  • you want to do well in Belgium : almost Max home grand prix
  • you can win Singapore
  • you must do very well at Suzuka
.

For my point of view, RBR should change Albon PU in Spa, Max in Monza, use the old PU for Singapore and Suchi and from then using the 4th PU for the remaining GPs of the season. I believe they can do it and finish the year with only 4 PUs.
Easy :-)
# change PU on Alex' car and the Toro Rossos (to get data from Spec4) in Spa
# depending on FP-results change PU in Max' car (as Spa is kind of a home GP for Max, it'd nice not to have a penalty there)
# if not in Spa PU-change for Max in Monza
# the question is if a rumoured Spec5 is ready in Russia, only a month later at the end of September. If so, change PU for FP just to have it in the pool and go all-in in Suzuka
# then they have the "somehow planned" 5 PU's to finish the season

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Jolle » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:03 pm

the fifth can be taken at Russia, start on the hard tire and do a "Rosberg"

Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Marti_EF3 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:08 pm

lio007 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:00 pm
HondaPOD wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:25 am
Honda facing "very complicated" Red Bull penalty call
The question is when you will change the PU keeping in mind these 3 points:
  • you want to do well in Belgium : almost Max home grand prix
  • you can win Singapore
  • you must do very well at Suzuka
.

For my point of view, RBR should change Albon PU in Spa, Max in Monza, use the old PU for Singapore and Suchi and from then using the 4th PU for the remaining GPs of the season. I believe they can do it and finish the year with only 4 PUs.
Easy :-)
# change PU on Alex' car and the Toro Rossos (to get data from Spec4) in Spa
# depending on FP-results change PU in Max' car (as Spa is kind of a home GP for Max, it'd nice not to have a penalty there)
# if not in Spa PU-change for Max in Monza
# the question is if a rumoured Spec5 is ready in Russia, only a month later at the end of September. If so, change PU for FP just to have it in the pool and go all-in in Suzuka
# then they have the "somehow planned" 5 PU's to finish the season
It was said that on Russia, a new fuel will be introduced. I think that a 5th PU is too much with that short timming

Bill
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Bill » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:37 pm

Horner has already said they will change pu italy inline with new updates. Spec 3 has already proven it can do 7 races. If they use spec 3 in Singapore and Mexico they may be no need to take a second spec 4 . Last year Max proved he can start at the back and be p5 within 2 laps so it's not a deal breaker he can still win races.

lio007
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by lio007 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:39 pm

Grabbed this one from Autosport-Forum (thanks to statman):
Marko is in Japan for the Super Formula weekend and gave an interview:

https://www.as-web.jp/super-formula/512963?all

courtesy of reddit:

--What is the thing you value the most when evaluating young talent?

Marko: I don’t want to expose trade secrets, so I’ll say one thing. Quickness. Over one lap, not overall race pace. I was once interested in a driver (a current F1 driver), and thought he was a very good driver. However, he lacked one lap pace, so I passed on bringing him into the Red Bull program. Today, he races quite well on Sundays, but is falling behind his teammate on Saturdays. My view of him was correct in the end, and his qualifying performance is hampering him.

--Come on, tell us another.

Marko: Mental toughness.

--How do you evaluate that?

Marko: We’ve been using various tests for the past few years that can quantify this. However, I still value talking to drivers directly and evaluating this. And I’ve rarely made any mistakes in my judgement. A typical, or an extreme example of this was Max. The first time I spoke to him, I sensed his mental fortitude.

--When was this?

Marko: When he was 15.

--Pierre Gasly was meant to be no slouch mentally.

Marko: That’s what I thought as well.

--Before Hungary, you haven’t publicly touched on the possibility of a driver swap mid-season. Was Hungary a turning point that brought about the decision?

Marko: You can say that. Not only did he fall behind at the start, but he struggled to make a move on Sainz, let alone pass him. This was despite Pierre’s pace being much better than Sainz. He eventually finished a lap down from the front.

--From somebody that has seen him last season, Pierre seems to be a different man now. Is this a mental issue?

Marko: I believe so. Pierre up until last season was quick over one lap, and didn’t hesitate to overtake during the race. But he hasn’t performed like that this season.

--And you’re saying that this is a psychological issue.

Marko: I think so.

--I’ve been wanting to ask you this, but do you believe that his early crash during winter testing affected his performance?

Marko: Not just once, but twice. Yes, his crashes had a great effect on the team’s test programs. We were short on parts, and faced issues completing our tests.

--And Gasly felt responsible for it?

Marko: Definitely so. And he was unable to move forward, even as the season started.

--Albon might not be ready mentally for the sudden promotion. Isn’t there a risk of him turning out like Gasly?

Marko: I’m optimistic. To be honest, I didn’t expect him to perform so well in his first season. He’s improving every race, too. Moreover Alex’s contract is only for the remaining 9 rounds. Nothing has been decided regarding Max’s teammate next season. So Alex doesn’t need to put any pressure on himself; he just needs to drive like himself.

--I see. Still, Kvyat has outperformed him in quali and races. Why have you chosen Albon despite this?

Marko: There’s no “despite” here. I just thought that Albon was the more appropriate choice. We already know how quick Kvyat is. He has also recovered well from his release from Red Bull. He has become a very complete driver. So we considered all of these factors, and decided to go with Albon's promise.

Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Marti_EF3 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:50 pm

lio007 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:39 pm
Grabbed this one from Autosport-Forum (thanks to statman):
Marko is in Japan for the Super Formula weekend and gave an interview:

https://www.as-web.jp/super-formula/512963?all

courtesy of reddit:

--What is the thing you value the most when evaluating young talent?

Marko: I don’t want to expose trade secrets, so I’ll say one thing. Quickness. Over one lap, not overall race pace. I was once interested in a driver (a current F1 driver), and thought he was a very good driver. However, he lacked one lap pace, so I passed on bringing him into the Red Bull program. Today, he races quite well on Sundays, but is falling behind his teammate on Saturdays. My view of him was correct in the end, and his qualifying performance is hampering him.

--Come on, tell us another.

Marko: Mental toughness.

--How do you evaluate that?

Marko: We’ve been using various tests for the past few years that can quantify this. However, I still value talking to drivers directly and evaluating this. And I’ve rarely made any mistakes in my judgement. A typical, or an extreme example of this was Max. The first time I spoke to him, I sensed his mental fortitude.

--When was this?

Marko: When he was 15.

--Pierre Gasly was meant to be no slouch mentally.

Marko: That’s what I thought as well.

--Before Hungary, you haven’t publicly touched on the possibility of a driver swap mid-season. Was Hungary a turning point that brought about the decision?

Marko: You can say that. Not only did he fall behind at the start, but he struggled to make a move on Sainz, let alone pass him. This was despite Pierre’s pace being much better than Sainz. He eventually finished a lap down from the front.

--From somebody that has seen him last season, Pierre seems to be a different man now. Is this a mental issue?

Marko: I believe so. Pierre up until last season was quick over one lap, and didn’t hesitate to overtake during the race. But he hasn’t performed like that this season.

--And you’re saying that this is a psychological issue.

Marko: I think so.

--I’ve been wanting to ask you this, but do you believe that his early crash during winter testing affected his performance?

Marko: Not just once, but twice. Yes, his crashes had a great effect on the team’s test programs. We were short on parts, and faced issues completing our tests.

--And Gasly felt responsible for it?

Marko: Definitely so. And he was unable to move forward, even as the season started.

--Albon might not be ready mentally for the sudden promotion. Isn’t there a risk of him turning out like Gasly?

Marko: I’m optimistic. To be honest, I didn’t expect him to perform so well in his first season. He’s improving every race, too. Moreover Alex’s contract is only for the remaining 9 rounds. Nothing has been decided regarding Max’s teammate next season. So Alex doesn’t need to put any pressure on himself; he just needs to drive like himself.

--I see. Still, Kvyat has outperformed him in quali and races. Why have you chosen Albon despite this?

Marko: There’s no “despite” here. I just thought that Albon was the more appropriate choice. We already know how quick Kvyat is. He has also recovered well from his release from Red Bull. He has become a very complete driver. So we considered all of these factors, and decided to go with Albon's promise.
I know I'm not being impartial, but a young boy named Alex Palou is showing good talent on qualy and even on race. And he is driving for Honda. Maybe he has to move away from O'wards and Ticktums... But well, I'm Spanish, so... :lol:

Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Jolle » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:41 pm

Marti_EF3 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:50 pm
lio007 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:39 pm
Grabbed this one from Autosport-Forum (thanks to statman):
Marko is in Japan for the Super Formula weekend and gave an interview:

https://www.as-web.jp/super-formula/512963?all

courtesy of reddit:

--What is the thing you value the most when evaluating young talent?

Marko: I don’t want to expose trade secrets, so I’ll say one thing. Quickness. Over one lap, not overall race pace. I was once interested in a driver (a current F1 driver), and thought he was a very good driver. However, he lacked one lap pace, so I passed on bringing him into the Red Bull program. Today, he races quite well on Sundays, but is falling behind his teammate on Saturdays. My view of him was correct in the end, and his qualifying performance is hampering him.

--Come on, tell us another.

Marko: Mental toughness.

--How do you evaluate that?

Marko: We’ve been using various tests for the past few years that can quantify this. However, I still value talking to drivers directly and evaluating this. And I’ve rarely made any mistakes in my judgement. A typical, or an extreme example of this was Max. The first time I spoke to him, I sensed his mental fortitude.

--When was this?

Marko: When he was 15.

--Pierre Gasly was meant to be no slouch mentally.

Marko: That’s what I thought as well.

--Before Hungary, you haven’t publicly touched on the possibility of a driver swap mid-season. Was Hungary a turning point that brought about the decision?

Marko: You can say that. Not only did he fall behind at the start, but he struggled to make a move on Sainz, let alone pass him. This was despite Pierre’s pace being much better than Sainz. He eventually finished a lap down from the front.

--From somebody that has seen him last season, Pierre seems to be a different man now. Is this a mental issue?

Marko: I believe so. Pierre up until last season was quick over one lap, and didn’t hesitate to overtake during the race. But he hasn’t performed like that this season.

--And you’re saying that this is a psychological issue.

Marko: I think so.

--I’ve been wanting to ask you this, but do you believe that his early crash during winter testing affected his performance?

Marko: Not just once, but twice. Yes, his crashes had a great effect on the team’s test programs. We were short on parts, and faced issues completing our tests.

--And Gasly felt responsible for it?

Marko: Definitely so. And he was unable to move forward, even as the season started.

--Albon might not be ready mentally for the sudden promotion. Isn’t there a risk of him turning out like Gasly?

Marko: I’m optimistic. To be honest, I didn’t expect him to perform so well in his first season. He’s improving every race, too. Moreover Alex’s contract is only for the remaining 9 rounds. Nothing has been decided regarding Max’s teammate next season. So Alex doesn’t need to put any pressure on himself; he just needs to drive like himself.

--I see. Still, Kvyat has outperformed him in quali and races. Why have you chosen Albon despite this?

Marko: There’s no “despite” here. I just thought that Albon was the more appropriate choice. We already know how quick Kvyat is. He has also recovered well from his release from Red Bull. He has become a very complete driver. So we considered all of these factors, and decided to go with Albon's promise.
I know I'm not being impartial, but a young boy named Alex Palou is showing good talent on qualy and even on race. And he is driving for Honda. Maybe he has to move away from O'wards and Ticktums... But well, I'm Spanish, so... :lol:
he's not doing to bad in super formula, but during his FIA champion years he's been nothing more then a steady midfielder. So I don't think he'll be in line for a F1 seat pretty soon...

TNTHead
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by TNTHead » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:06 pm

lio007 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:39 pm
Grabbed this one from Autosport-Forum (thanks to statman):
Marko is in Japan for the Super Formula weekend and gave an interview:

https://www.as-web.jp/super-formula/512963?all

courtesy of reddit:

--What is the thing you value the most when evaluating young talent?

Marko: I don’t want to expose trade secrets, so I’ll say one thing. Quickness. Over one lap, not overall race pace. I was once interested in a driver (a current F1 driver), and thought he was a very good driver. However, he lacked one lap pace, so I passed on bringing him into the Red Bull program. Today, he races quite well on Sundays, but is falling behind his teammate on Saturdays. My view of him was correct in the end, and his qualifying performance is hampering him.

--Come on, tell us another.

Marko: Mental toughness.

--How do you evaluate that?

Marko: We’ve been using various tests for the past few years that can quantify this. However, I still value talking to drivers directly and evaluating this. And I’ve rarely made any mistakes in my judgement. A typical, or an extreme example of this was Max. The first time I spoke to him, I sensed his mental fortitude.

--When was this?

Marko: When he was 15.

--Pierre Gasly was meant to be no slouch mentally.

Marko: That’s what I thought as well.

--Before Hungary, you haven’t publicly touched on the possibility of a driver swap mid-season. Was Hungary a turning point that brought about the decision?

Marko: You can say that. Not only did he fall behind at the start, but he struggled to make a move on Sainz, let alone pass him. This was despite Pierre’s pace being much better than Sainz. He eventually finished a lap down from the front.

--From somebody that has seen him last season, Pierre seems to be a different man now. Is this a mental issue?

Marko: I believe so. Pierre up until last season was quick over one lap, and didn’t hesitate to overtake during the race. But he hasn’t performed like that this season.

--And you’re saying that this is a psychological issue.

Marko: I think so.

--I’ve been wanting to ask you this, but do you believe that his early crash during winter testing affected his performance?

Marko: Not just once, but twice. Yes, his crashes had a great effect on the team’s test programs. We were short on parts, and faced issues completing our tests.

--And Gasly felt responsible for it?

Marko: Definitely so. And he was unable to move forward, even as the season started.

--Albon might not be ready mentally for the sudden promotion. Isn’t there a risk of him turning out like Gasly?

Marko: I’m optimistic. To be honest, I didn’t expect him to perform so well in his first season. He’s improving every race, too. Moreover Alex’s contract is only for the remaining 9 rounds. Nothing has been decided regarding Max’s teammate next season. So Alex doesn’t need to put any pressure on himself; he just needs to drive like himself.

--I see. Still, Kvyat has outperformed him in quali and races. Why have you chosen Albon despite this?

Marko: There’s no “despite” here. I just thought that Albon was the more appropriate choice. We already know how quick Kvyat is. He has also recovered well from his release from Red Bull. He has become a very complete driver. So we considered all of these factors, and decided to go with Albon's promise.
Thanks for sharing. This confirms the common analysis concluded on this forum i guess... Gasly a fast driver but with a (temporary?) mental issue hampering his races and results.

Marko is also positive about Kvyat. I am wondering, if Albon is earning his seat at RBR, will we see Kvyat go to another team like Renault? He proved to be F1 material.

loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by loner » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:28 pm

HondaPOD wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:25 am
Honda facing "very complicated" Red Bull penalty call
The question is when you will change the PU keeping in mind these 3 points:
  • you want to do well in Belgium : almost Max home grand prix
  • you can win Singapore
  • you must do very well at Suzuka
.

For my point of view, RBR should change Albon PU in Spa, Max in Monza, use the old PU for Singapore and Suchi and from then using the 4th PU for the remaining GPs of the season. I believe they can do it and finish the year with only 4 PUs.
your link is dead this is the right link and thnx ofcourse.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14543 ... 1549226475
this is very interesting...
Tanabe added: "We have two types of plan, long-term and short-term.

"After the race we review the situation, the condition of the PU, maybe two or three races is the short-term. "And the long-term means until the end of the season."

"It is very complicated."
para bellum.

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by godlameroso » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:53 pm

It's not just the ICE that's being worked on, a new fuel blend to work with the ICE is being developed. The fuel won't be ready until Singapore at the earliest. The fuel will unlock the power of spec 4, which makes the timing of the ICE upgrade more critical.

Ferrari will be more competitive in Spa and Monza, which makes these two rounds the ideal place to take engine penalties. This is due to the fact that Ferrari will be challenging with their top speed, so it's not a guaranteed Mercedes win. It makes taking the penalty less harsh.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

KelsO
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by KelsO » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:55 pm

kasio wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:48 am
cmon! rearing another driver twice is not political. it is his own responsibility. he was not good enough and thats the only reason there was considerations to replace him.
This is not politics in the usual sense of the word, in F1 it is full of politics, everyone knows about it. The fact that Kvyat was given so many chances only confirms my theory. Racers who do not live up to their expectations leave Rudbull. RedBull just knew what Kvyat was worth and knew that his expulsion from RudBull was unfounded. I understand their decision, Max is a great racer and he had great potential, it would be foolish to miss it, but I don’t like how it was implemented. It's not about Max, it's about how sometimes Red Bull makes decisions.
 It has just been stated by all the main persons that Pierre will finish the season, but after that he was replaced by Albon. This decision is absolutely correct, but why so much lies, they could simply remain silent.

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:10 pm

Capharol wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:03 am
why are you Quoting yourself diffuser? seen it several times now
You mean my reply to McMika98 ?

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:57 pm

diffuser wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:10 pm
Capharol wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:03 am
why are you Quoting yourself diffuser? seen it several times now
You mean my reply to McMika98 ?
yes , i though you double clicked or so, saw this happened before ... its just a question not a attack on you (as some ssems to think, or think they are being attacked) :wink:
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.