2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Juzh
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I'm not sure if this was already posted, but here's what's possible is happening:

Honda admits freak Verstappen power cut could strike again
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... e/4540240/

the important part:
Honda's system caused the initial loss of power as it cut in to avoid excessive revving damaging the engine, triggering a torque reduction when Verstappen was at full throttle.

After this, the FIA system – which is the same for all teams – filtered the engine back to full power.
No quotes about this however, so possibly a jorno's interpetation of event to some extent.

Seeing as this problem is not done and dusted and could make a return, do we have a timestamp of when this actually happened, so we can check it in the onboard footage? Could it be honda are using a lower rev limiter in lower gears where wheel spin is more likely and verstappen simply hit that while jumping over some kerbs? But then if that was the case, FIA's system couldn't possibly add more power, since he's on the rev limiter anyway. Quite a mess all this.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:28 pm
I'm not sure if this was already posted, but here's what's possible is happening:

Honda admits freak Verstappen power cut could strike again
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... e/4540240/

the important part:
Honda's system caused the initial loss of power as it cut in to avoid excessive revving damaging the engine, triggering a torque reduction when Verstappen was at full throttle.

This is an article based on statements during the GP weekend. There are no recent statements from Honda.
Jos Vertappen said that the problem would be solved for Singapore, if I remember correctly.
I think that has been written somewhere here.

Yes, I found what he said:

" There was something with Max during the race that prevented him from achieving the required top speed
and the expected RPM. However, that has been solved for the next race. "

lio007
lio007
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Location: Austria

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:28 pm
I'm not sure if this was already posted, but here's what's possible is happening:

Honda admits freak Verstappen power cut could strike again
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... e/4540240/

the important part:
Honda's system caused the initial loss of power as it cut in to avoid excessive revving damaging the engine, triggering a torque reduction when Verstappen was at full throttle.

After this, the FIA system – which is the same for all teams – filtered the engine back to full power.
No quotes about this however, so possibly a jorno's interpetation of event to some extent.

Seeing as this problem is not done and dusted and could make a return, do we have a timestamp of when this actually happened, so we can check it in the onboard footage? Could it be honda are using a lower rev limiter in lower gears where wheel spin is more likely and verstappen simply hit that while jumping over some kerbs? But then if that was the case, FIA's system couldn't possibly add more power, since he's on the rev limiter anyway. Quite a mess all this.
It was in Monza, Q1, at about 1:10 left of Q1.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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According to Max Verstappen, the software problem that played him the past two Grands Prix troubles has been solved. The Red Bull driver expects this weekend on the street circuit in Singapore to no longer be bothered by the malfunction which means that the engine power of the Honda power source suddenly drops out.

In the run-up to the Grand Prix on the Marina Bay Street Circuit, Honda boss Toyoharu Tanabe announced that the failure could occur again, but Verstappen said Thursday night in Singapore that he no longer expects any problems.
"They say they have solved it," said the Dutchman.

In addition to the problem with the software, Verstappen has also had bad starts since the switch to Honda. In Hungary, that went well, but in Belgium and Germany, the Red Bull had a bad place.

"It's not as easy to get off to a good start as in recent years," said Verstappen, adding that his team is trying to improve this. "Sometimes we have good starts, sometimes it goes less. We try to get that better."

TimW
TimW
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:28 pm
I'm not sure if this was already posted, but here's what's possible is happening:

Honda admits freak Verstappen power cut could strike again
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... e/4540240/

the important part:
Honda's system caused the initial loss of power as it cut in to avoid excessive revving damaging the engine, triggering a torque reduction when Verstappen was at full throttle.

After this, the FIA system – which is the same for all teams – filtered the engine back to full power.
No quotes about this however, so possibly a jorno's interpetation of event to some extent.

Seeing as this problem is not done and dusted and could make a return, do we have a timestamp of when this actually happened, so we can check it in the onboard footage? Could it be honda are using a lower rev limiter in lower gears where wheel spin is more likely and verstappen simply hit that while jumping over some kerbs? But then if that was the case, FIA's system couldn't possibly add more power, since he's on the rev limiter anyway. Quite a mess all this.
On a Dutch website I read that the torque reduction by the Honda safety system was interpreted by the FIA monitoring system as traction control, and therefore the FIA system cut out power (not put it back to full power).

Cannot find the article anymore. The explanation that it is interpreted as traction control seems plausible. However, I would not expect a FIA system to intervene, just to register the 'offense'.

Datco
Datco
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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With the amount of corners in singapore I think we can expect excessive wheel spin to be very likely.
Honda will need to sort out the problem quickly

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Juzh
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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lio007 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:06 pm
Juzh wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:28 pm
I'm not sure if this was already posted, but here's what's possible is happening:

Honda admits freak Verstappen power cut could strike again
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... e/4540240/

the important part:
Honda's system caused the initial loss of power as it cut in to avoid excessive revving damaging the engine, triggering a torque reduction when Verstappen was at full throttle.

After this, the FIA system – which is the same for all teams – filtered the engine back to full power.
No quotes about this however, so possibly a jorno's interpetation of event to some extent.

Seeing as this problem is not done and dusted and could make a return, do we have a timestamp of when this actually happened, so we can check it in the onboard footage? Could it be honda are using a lower rev limiter in lower gears where wheel spin is more likely and verstappen simply hit that while jumping over some kerbs? But then if that was the case, FIA's system couldn't possibly add more power, since he's on the rev limiter anyway. Quite a mess all this.
It was in Monza, Q1, at about 1:10 left of Q1.
Ok thanks. I went and checked it. From the onboard there's nothing wierd that could be seen happening, he didn't even strike any kerbs very hard, just a normal push lap.
Telemetry is unavailable unfortunately, beause a car has to do 1 flying lap before the f1 app registers it as being on track (don't ask me why), and verstappen didn't do one. He did pit-out and pit-in imeaditealy after. TBH I don't think anything useful could be found, since the entire thing was very uneventful.
quick clip:
https://streamable.com/fsxmy


Hopefully it's really fixed as they say it is.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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After het exits the chicane and the right rear touches the kerb, i hear a short blip.

Maybe the Fia system holds the torque reduction for a few seconds and delays the return of full power. Preventing any gain of laptime, if a torque reduction would activate.

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Maybe his rear wheels spin on the slippery curb and the rpm Goes too high, Honda in save mode, which in turn triggers the FIA system?
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

Webber2011
Webber2011
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Does anyone know how the FIA system works, or could point me to the appropriate thread please ?

I'm quite interested but don't know much about it at all.

Cheers

hasika
hasika
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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https://members.f1-life.net/race/87460/

Maybe a little bit OT.But some information about Honda PU.
Tanabe confirms no damage to Kvyt's Honda PU.
Kvyt was runing just after Albon when Albon was out of the track(by the contact with Sainz),then the gravel shower hit the car and oil cooler was damaged.Then the oil started to leak gradually and finally he had to retire from the race.

McMika98
McMika98
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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hasika wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:49 am
https://members.f1-life.net/race/87460/

Maybe a little bit OT.But some information about Honda PU.
Tanabe confirms no damage to Kvyt's Honda PU.
Kvyt was runing just after Albon when Albon was out of the track(by the contact with Sainz),then the gravel shower hit the car and oil cooler was damaged.Then the oil started to leak gradually and finally he had to retire from the race.
Yes good news there. Honda seem to have the reliability now in control. Singapore wont be much of a challenge for the engine given a spec 2 engine was competitive in Spa. I think a win on all races remaining is possible. How about that for a finish?

hasika
hasika
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 54&tt=1170

Tanabe's interview

·Kvyt's PU was OK and can be uesed again.
·He is confident that Verstappen's power cut will not happen again,they did many bench tests.
·When asked if they will use spec4 this race.He said yeah but no comment about how many cars and when to use spec4 during the race weekend.
·When asked about throttle lag problem he said that how the drivers want to drive and if they are satisfied or not,cant be seen in the data.So drivers's feedback is very important.
·About start problem.The PU is connected with the car body so both side were working hard to fix it.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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hasika wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:09 am
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 54&tt=1170

Tanabe's interview
..............
Thank you again @Hasika for both the translations.

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Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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They should be using Spec 2 today. And then change to Spec 4 for the rest of the weekend. I think Spec 2 have too much mileage to be used on another race fighting for the win