2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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auv
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Suzuka q3. Based on onboards from Juzh.

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:00 pm
Onboard stills of Q3 fastest laps and position on track where top speed was achieved just before 130R from all 4 PU's. Again, I'm aware there are many factors involved here, but it shows some interesting things.
Ferrari were the only ones accelerating right up until turn in, significant advantage here. Honda and Mercedes are evenly matched speed wise around the track, here they both hit 314 and hold for a bit before turn in (Honda 2-3kph up on Mercedes on the DRS straight), Renault holding at 308 for a fair amount of time before 130R, looks to be lacking that last push.

https://ibb.co/6WZ5zKx
You shouldn't be using McLaren as an example. McLaren said they were running max DF. if you take the speeed trap numbers (which is just after turn 15) from Quali. You can see that Ricciardo well ahead of Norris and Sainz. Clearily the amount of DF you're using is going to affect those numbers. You can easily misintrepret those numbers to read that the Renault PU with Ricciardo is a real rocket while the Honda and Merc PU are lacking push. We know that isn't true.

It is very difficult to compare PUs using speed when you using different DF levels and PU Maps. Yes Maps are an issue as well, just because you see 1 PUs rear lights flashing red between turns 14 and 15 while another is not. It doesn't mean that the other PU wasn't flashing red somewhere else. I noticed that Ferrari was flashing red in turn 1. You have to follow the car around for the whole lap and see how much recooperation time they have. That will tell you how good thier MGU-H and MGU-K are.
SPEED TRAP KM/H
1  16 C. LECLERC    312.5
2   5 S. VETTEL     312.2
3  18 L. STROLL     310.4
4   3 D. RICCIARDO  308.2
5  11 S. PEREZ      307.6
6   7 K. RAIKKONEN  307.1
7  23 A. ALBON      307.0
8  99 A. GIOVINAZZI 306.9
9   8 R. GROSJEAN   306.8
10 26 D. KVYAT      306.7
11 27 N. HULKENBERG 306.3
12 44 L. HAMILTON   306.3
13 77 V. BOTTAS     305.9
14 10 P. GASLY      305.8
15 33 M. VERSTAPPEN 305.3
16 20 K. MAGNUSSEN  304.4
17  4 L. NORRIS     304.3
18 55 C. SAINZ      303.8
19 63 G. RUSSELL    299.5
20 88 R. KUBICA     210.8

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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https://twitter.com/redbullracing/statu ... 0014915587

333 pieces à 3100 Euro. Already sold out.

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Hino
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Ground Effect
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Apparently Patricio O’Ward has been dropped from the Red Bull Junior Team.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

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Morteza
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:02 pm
Apparently Patricio O’Ward has been dropped from the Red Bull Junior Team.
Yup, that is correct. He is linked to McLaren's IndyCar project which is even rumored to be announced as soon as Mexican GP next week.
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I think the speculation for next year's car will be a big thread. Because so many people think that their answer comes from a longer wheelbase. Perhaps, but the RB15 isn't drastically shorter than Mercedes or Ferrari, the problem is aero. RB loses out to Mercedes in the high speed corners, there just isn't as much downforce, and although it has more downforce than Ferrari, it doesn't have the engine to compete on the straights. The gap that exists is due to both the car not having enough downforce, and not enough power. Therefore to fix the gap the engine needs either a lot more power, or a lot more downforce, or a combination of the two.

The only silver lining is in the fact both Ferrari and Mercedes seem to have overcommitted this year, which may slow down the development of next year's car. Whereas Red Bull may have diverted more resources to next year earlier than either team and may start with a more evolved concept. Then again, Red Bull is known for making subtle changes, not large obvious ones, the subtle changes are more methodical, but could cost just as much as the radical ones, we don't know. Subtle changes indicate that a concept is locked in, large changes indicate that one want to explore a different concept.

So we don't really know what RB's MO is, have they been throwing their resources for next year's car? Have they just been developing their car as much as possible, but just haven't improved it enough to make up for the still there engine deficit?

It's clear both Honda and Red Bull need to take a big step over the winter to be on equal terms with Ferrari and Mercedes. Who may or may not have the disadvantage of over committing to this year.

As an aside, I honestly think that Ferrari's resurgence comes from Pirelli allowing lower tire pressures, which has reduced RB and Mercedes chassis advantage enough for the Ferrari engine to give them the edge.
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McMika98
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:03 pm

The only silver lining is in the fact both Ferrari and Mercedes seem to have overcommitted this year, which may slow down the development of next year's car. Subtle changes indicate that a concept is locked in, large changes indicate that one want to explore a different concept.

As an aside, I honestly think that Ferrari's resurgence comes from Pirelli allowing lower tire pressures, which has reduced RB and Mercedes chassis advantage enough for the Ferrari engine to give them the edge.
Same regs next year so what works now will only need incremental change. No one will find seconds worth of time. Redbull already half a second defeceit recently. So they should concentrate on closing the gap asap instead of hoping for a leap next year.

Agree with the second point fully. It has finally worked with their setup and aero package. Pirelli will be inclined to run reduced pressure even more.

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IvailoStefanovBG
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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My version of 2019 car development is that Redbull realized the car had fundamental flaw just after season start . They tried to easyfix it but it didnt happen and they moved resources to 2020 season. That`s why we haven`t seen anything major since France....

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loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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talking about resources and regarding the financial plunge in the automotive world generally with Alfa romeo pulling the plug from Sauber next year, could Aston Martin do the same paving the way to Honda to step forward pouring more money as title sponsor specially after tasting winning sure wins taste awesome with a lucrative benefits.
more funds for a beast chassis and wins of course Honda can afford.
para bellum.

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HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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loner wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:30 pm
talking about resources and regarding the financial plunge in the automotive world generally with Alfa romeo pulling the plug from Sauber next year, could Aston Martin do the same paving the way to Honda to step forward pouring more money as title sponsor specially after tasting winning sure wins taste awesome with a lucrative benefits.
more funds for a beast chassis and wins of course Honda can afford.
I am not so sure about this.
Honda can pay? Yes, but there are many managers of the company that do not think alike.
The truth is that I'm afraid that Honda will leave F1 again.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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HPD wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:18 pm
loner wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:30 pm
talking about resources and regarding the financial plunge in the automotive world generally with Alfa romeo pulling the plug from Sauber next year, could Aston Martin do the same paving the way to Honda to step forward pouring more money as title sponsor specially after tasting winning sure wins taste awesome with a lucrative benefits.
more funds for a beast chassis and wins of course Honda can afford.
I am not so sure about this.
Honda can pay? Yes, but there are many managers of the company that do not think alike.
The truth is that I'm afraid that Honda will leave F1 again.
My opinion is that Honda will not leave F1.
They have managed to develop a good engine and now it is RBR's turn to ensure a good car
so that Max can win.
They don't want to lose Max so they MUST design a winning car that is good from the start.

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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:03 pm
As an aside, I honestly think that Ferrari's resurgence comes from Pirelli allowing lower tire pressures, which has reduced RB and Mercedes chassis advantage enough for the Ferrari engine to give them the edge.
I may have missed that one. When did Pirelli allow lower tire pressures?

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Morteza
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

McMika98
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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IvailoStefanovBG wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:27 pm
My version of 2019 car development is that Redbull realized the car had fundamental flaw just after season start . They tried to easyfix it but it didnt happen and they moved resources to 2020 season. That`s why we haven`t seen anything major since France....
Unfortunately that isnt the case. Ferrari were struggling with lack of downforce and balance and even with the engine advantage not as quick as RedBull. If anything they would have done what you speculate.
Redbull cant change their aero philosophy this late. So they must improve rear stability asap.