2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by loner » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:39 pm

HPD wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:18 pm
loner wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:30 pm
talking about resources and regarding the financial plunge in the automotive world generally with Alfa romeo pulling the plug from Sauber next year, could Aston Martin do the same paving the way to Honda to step forward pouring more money as title sponsor specially after tasting winning sure wins taste awesome with a lucrative benefits.
more funds for a beast chassis and wins of course Honda can afford.
I am not so sure about this.
Honda can pay? Yes, but there are many managers of the company that do not think alike.
The truth is that I'm afraid that Honda will leave F1 again.
you sure about that ?!!
they are putting Max pics on the hq bulding walls like no tomorrow
para bellum.

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by godlameroso » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:41 am

Perhaps it's a matter of direction. Sure Honda can make a bigger investment into the RB F1 team, but then they'll naturally demand more influence in how the team is ran. Regarding any flaws in the car, they can be fixed next year, so more important than fixing any issues this season, it's to understand what needs to be done to improve the situation. Next year the chassis wheelbase can be stretched or any change that needs to be made, it's better to be sure, making methodical changes and implementing them effectively, than rushing in something that could have knock on effects.

The RB 15 isn't a bad car, it's just not the best car. Where Mercedes is a 10 in chassis, 9 engine, 8.7 driver(average), Ferrari is 8.5 in chassis 10 in engine 8.6 driver(average), then RB is 9 chassis 8.5 engine, and 8.8 driver. To compete they need minimum 9.5 chassis and 9 engine. So again they need a very decent step, which is possible, but not easy.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:06 am

You think Max+Albon is better than Hamilton+Bottas?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

GPR-A
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by GPR-A » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:34 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:06 am
You think Max+Albon is better than Hamilton+Bottas?
I am surprised it's not 10 and only 8.8 for RB drivers. Albon is a good driver and Max obviously is on par with Hamilton in terms of potential. But Max is still error prone.

Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Wouter » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:54 am

.
Hear more from Tanabe-san and the drivers about Mexico.
https://en.hondaracingf1.com/races/2019 ... -prix.html

Sieper
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Sieper » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:03 am

GPR -A wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:34 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:06 am
You think Max+Albon is better than Hamilton+Bottas?
I am surprised it's not 10 and only 8.8 for RB drivers. Albon is a good driver and Max obviously is on par with Hamilton in terms of potential. But Max is still error prone.
Ok, I must say I had not expected this reaction from you. Usually your opinion on Max reads much less favourable (to me, so now knowing your baseline I will do my best to remember that) so I am glad to read this. I also agree on Albon, he was good in karting (very) and what he has shown so far in Formula racing is also very good. Sad to see he was already on the verge of being in FE but at least for him it turned out great (on the verge of missing out). I still hope to see Wehrlein back (and dare I say Nyck de Vries) in F1. We need more teams and a more fair distribution of the TV money for that to happen though.

loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by loner » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:40 pm

Horner: Verstappen doesn't share father's Red Bull concerns
Speaking to Motorsport.com about Jos Verstappen's remarks on his son's frustrations, Horner said: "Max is a very different person to his father. He sees the bigger picture.
"He was in Sakura [before the Japanese GP] and he has seen what is coming, and the commitment of Honda to the development of the engine, and to F1.
"In the factory he sees what is going on, so I think racing dads unfortunately can sometimes get a bit excited."
well you don't build a cutting edge facility (Sakura) to produce a 1.5 DI turbo for the civics, there are a big war concerning the hybrid and the coming cars electrifying revolution.
para bellum.

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by godlameroso » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:11 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:06 am
You think Max+Albon is better than Hamilton+Bottas?
Max is probably the best driver on the grid at the moment.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:20 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:11 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:06 am
You think Max+Albon is better than Hamilton+Bottas?
Max is probably the best driver on the grid at the moment.
That's a big claim. "Best" means different things to different people so it's probably a reasonable claim in some eyes.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:29 pm

Sieper wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:03 am
GPR -A wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:34 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:06 am
You think Max+Albon is better than Hamilton+Bottas?
I am surprised it's not 10 and only 8.8 for RB drivers. Albon is a good driver and Max obviously is on par with Hamilton in terms of potential. But Max is still error prone.
Ok, I must say I had not expected this reaction from you. Usually your opinion on Max reads much less favourable (to me, so now knowing your baseline I will do my best to remember that) so I am glad to read this. I also agree on Albon, he was good in karting (very) and what he has shown so far in Formula racing is also very good. Sad to see he was already on the verge of being in FE but at least for him it turned out great (on the verge of missing out). I still hope to see Wehrlein back (and dare I say Nyck de Vries) in F1. We need more teams and a more fair distribution of the TV money for that to happen though.
Hard to compare Albon to either Hamilton or Bottas at this point in his career, too green. I'm not a Max fan, my issues with him are more with the way he's managed but I have no doudt that he's good enough.

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:20 pm

diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:29 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:03 am
GPR -A wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:34 am
I am surprised it's not 10 and only 8.8 for RB drivers. Albon is a good driver and Max obviously is on par with Hamilton in terms of potential. But Max is still error prone.
Ok, I must say I had not expected this reaction from you. Usually your opinion on Max reads much less favourable (to me, so now knowing your baseline I will do my best to remember that) so I am glad to read this. I also agree on Albon, he was good in karting (very) and what he has shown so far in Formula racing is also very good. Sad to see he was already on the verge of being in FE but at least for him it turned out great (on the verge of missing out). I still hope to see Wehrlein back (and dare I say Nyck de Vries) in F1. We need more teams and a more fair distribution of the TV money for that to happen though.
Hard to compare Albon to either Hamilton or Bottas at this point in his career, too green. I'm not a Max fan, my issues with him are more with the way he's managed but I have no doudt that he's good enough.
that goes for me with Leclerc, to political, to smooth, to obvious, saw once how he suddenly became active as he noticed the camera was pointed at him, but before he did that, he was just doing nothing .... (hope you understand what i wanna say)
this was the same, and sometime still is, with Lewis, remember a while ago where he, after winning, always said "oh these are the best fans, is the best track, etc."
with Max, to me, it's more naturel, he speaks out what he thinks, most other drivers don't
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:52 pm

Capharol wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:20 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:29 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:03 am


Ok, I must say I had not expected this reaction from you. Usually your opinion on Max reads much less favourable (to me, so now knowing your baseline I will do my best to remember that) so I am glad to read this. I also agree on Albon, he was good in karting (very) and what he has shown so far in Formula racing is also very good. Sad to see he was already on the verge of being in FE but at least for him it turned out great (on the verge of missing out). I still hope to see Wehrlein back (and dare I say Nyck de Vries) in F1. We need more teams and a more fair distribution of the TV money for that to happen though.
Hard to compare Albon to either Hamilton or Bottas at this point in his career, too green. I'm not a Max fan, my issues with him are more with the way he's managed but I have no doudt that he's good enough.
that goes for me with Leclerc, to political, to smooth, to obvious, saw once how he suddenly became active as he noticed the camera was pointed at him, but before he did that, he was just doing nothing .... (hope you understand what i wanna say)
this was the same, and sometime still is, with Lewis, remember a while ago where he, after winning, always said "oh these are the best fans, is the best track, etc."
with Max, to me, it's more naturel, he speaks out what he thinks, most other drivers don't
My problems are not with Max and how he behaves. More with what I think they allow him to do. I'm just not a fan of all this contact on the track. I was a fan of the "always leave space when passing". I wouldn't want my drivers making contact if I was a team principle. It has a high probablity of ending in tears. That 's just my opinion, I realise other have a different perspective and I respect that.

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by godlameroso » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:44 pm

diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:52 pm
Capharol wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:20 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:29 pm


Hard to compare Albon to either Hamilton or Bottas at this point in his career, too green. I'm not a Max fan, my issues with him are more with the way he's managed but I have no doudt that he's good enough.
that goes for me with Leclerc, to political, to smooth, to obvious, saw once how he suddenly became active as he noticed the camera was pointed at him, but before he did that, he was just doing nothing .... (hope you understand what i wanna say)
this was the same, and sometime still is, with Lewis, remember a while ago where he, after winning, always said "oh these are the best fans, is the best track, etc."
with Max, to me, it's more naturel, he speaks out what he thinks, most other drivers don't
My problems are not with Max and how he behaves. More with what I think they allow him to do. I'm just not a fan of all this contact on the track. I was a fan of the "always leave space when passing". I wouldn't want my drivers making contact if I was a team principle. It has a high probablity of ending in tears. That 's just my opinion, I realise other have a different perspective and I respect that.
He doesn't and hasn't punted anyone off track that didn't try something that wasn't possible. He's a clean racer, he knows the limit of the car and what it can take, it's part of what makes him a complete driver.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:01 pm

diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:52 pm
Capharol wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:20 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:29 pm


Hard to compare Albon to either Hamilton or Bottas at this point in his career, too green. I'm not a Max fan, my issues with him are more with the way he's managed but I have no doudt that he's good enough.
that goes for me with Leclerc, to political, to smooth, to obvious, saw once how he suddenly became active as he noticed the camera was pointed at him, but before he did that, he was just doing nothing .... (hope you understand what i wanna say)
this was the same, and sometime still is, with Lewis, remember a while ago where he, after winning, always said "oh these are the best fans, is the best track, etc."
with Max, to me, it's more naturel, he speaks out what he thinks, most other drivers don't
My problems are not with Max and how he behaves. More with what I think they allow him to do. I'm just not a fan of all this contact on the track. I was a fan of the "always leave space when passing". I wouldn't want my drivers making contact if I was a team principle. It has a high probablity of ending in tears. That 's just my opinion, I realise other have a different perspective and I respect that.
okay so if we were to race (you and I) and i would put my car beside you you would leave me through?
..... now i know who you really are..... you're Bottas, he is easy to pass aswell :lol: :wink:
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

Wazari
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Wazari » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:15 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:41 am
Perhaps it's a matter of direction. Sure Honda can make a bigger investment into the RB F1 team, but then they'll naturally demand more influence in how the team is ran. Regarding any flaws in the car, they can be fixed next year, so more important than fixing any issues this season, it's to understand what needs to be done to improve the situation. Next year the chassis wheelbase can be stretched or any change that needs to be made, it's better to be sure, making methodical changes and implementing them effectively, than rushing in something that could have knock on effects.

The RB 15 isn't a bad car, it's just not the best car. Where Mercedes is a 10 in chassis, 9 engine, 8.7 driver(average), Ferrari is 8.5 in chassis 10 in engine 8.6 driver(average), then RB is 9 chassis 8.5 engine, and 8.8 driver. To compete they need minimum 9.5 chassis and 9 engine. So again they need a very decent step, which is possible, but not easy.
I like the way you assigned a value to each of the variables. While I may not totally agree with the values you have given, I think it's a relatively close assessment of where things stand right now. The RB chassis given a nine would be where the "sweet spot" is attained. It seems the RB15 has a very small window where it seems to be balanced. Red Bull has placed almost all of its efforts after summer break to next year's car.

I myself have really mixed feelings about this season. I believe the "5" spec PU should have been introduced this season. However, it seems that maximum emphasis has been placed on dialing in the ICE to its maximum potential while leaving other components the same to decrease the number of variables to be assessed on the limited amount of track time. Strategies with regards to fuel upgrades did a U-turn before summer break that also had a big effect on when upgrades would be introduced. So while I am pleased with progress made this season, I am also disappointed. However, I can understand as fuel blends have really evolved over the past season and can be a real difference maker. Ferrari's exhaust smell has changed drastically between Singapore and Sochi. I first noticed in Sochi that Ferrari's exhaust fumes smelled like a wood fire. Only the factory team. Mercedes always had a distinct smell from the beginning of this season, like plastic burning, again only the factory team. The rest smell like what you would expect for a non-emission controlled gasoline engine. The Honda's exhaust smell did change at Suzuka from previous races.

Going back to Red Bull, I wouldn't be surprised if the RB16 has a much different aero concept from this year's car. As far as the PU, looks like Spec 5.XXX will be Spec 1 for next year.
If you can make the opposition flinch, you have already won.