2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Schuttelberg » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:09 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:40 am
Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:58 am
djones wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:27 pm
Bottas must feel like such a fool shouting and swearing about his win....

To then find the other Mercedes who was faster in FP and Q had a badly damaged car since lap 4.
Lewis tends to behave like an over petulant child when things don't go his way and I think he was just done with it after the start.
Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more with this statement. He's competitive, like any other successful driver in the sport.

I like Vettel, but when I think of petulance, I think of his outburst on the radio at Charlie Whiting and ramming into Lewis in Baku.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ECeVacI5Bc

And after this race, Lewis was very quick to say Bottas deserved the win and played down the very real damage to the rear section of the floor, which is well documented by pretty much every reputable F1 journalist in the paddock at this point. Hamilton said Bottas won at the start.

It seems that those who are trying to disregard the reality of the floor damage (there are photos of the piece missing, photos of the team trying to cure that part of the floor pre-race, etc.) can't see past an irrational hatred for Lewis, which is their prerogative. To me, it's like denying the moon landing happened. :lol:

And virtually no one has said that the damage was the primary difference in the outcome of the race. On the contrary, it only partially explained the size of the gap.
I don't see much respect there but anyway. I'm not here to claim Vettel as some Gandhi or Teresa. He has his fair share of moron moments, Mexico 2016 is not one in my book. I have always said that he should have been black flagged immediately at Baku in 2017. To sight an example on Hamilton's behalf, I just did not get the logic of Spa 2008 for example. I get the downbeat behaviour then.

I will show you umpteen videos of Vettel behaving like a grown up in this phase where Hamilton has won endlessly and I will show you the same number where Hamilton's body language is a tell tell that he isn't the same when he wins. Perhaps, it's got to do with his people pleasing attitude when he wins and all that PR codswallop.

On to the race, Hamilton lost at the start and it's really harsh. I think he would have won broken floor, wing, car or not if he led lap 1. Mercedes also gave him a pretty moron strategy trying to protect from Vettel who was the first to be put on the moron strategy.

There is no irrational hatred for Lewis and if you don't believe that Mercedes have done an exceptional job protecting their drivers in the very pressurised moments, you're probably on the moon my friend.

Both Hamilton and Vettel are the best drivers of their generation and in 2019 March, Hamilton is the better of the two. Both have endearing personality traits and very irritating ones as well. I just felt that Vettel handles losing better than Hamilton. It's not a sin you know if you're Hamilton? The first sign of a successful person is to be unable to tolerate defeat.

Take it easy and it might not be a bad idea to hear someone else's opinion and not judge them unnecessarily without knowing them.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

PhillipM
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by PhillipM » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:10 pm

The damage doesn't even need to make a massive impact, if you loose a couple of tenths, and your balance is out, then you start struggling with keeping tyres in the right window and wear, so you may as well do exactly what Lewis did and realise once you're dropping back from Bottas that you may as well just nurse the car, turn down the engine, and watch the tyres on the way home.
You try to chase down Bottas and hope you have half a second over him just in the driving - and you start sliding the tyres around, kill them and all of a sudden you need two pitstops and you're looking at the back of a Ferrari at the finish - with a load of engine wear you need to carry into the next 6-7 races.

You could see Hamilton had pace in hand and was just coasting home as every time Verstappen got to DRS range Lewis just drove away - he was letting Max just sit in the dirty air all the time to kill Max's tyres.

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:28 pm

Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:09 pm
. . . and not judge them unnecessarily without knowing them.
Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:58 am
Lewis tends to behave like an over petulant child when things don't go his way and I think he was just done with it after the start.

Pot, meet kettle.

Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:09 pm
I don't see much respect there but anyway.
Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more with that comment, either. It seems you subconsciously grouped yourself into the folks I describe as the irrational Lewis haters. That wasn't my intention. If you are not one of those people, then fair play to you, but describing Lewis as a petulant child during/after the '19 Australian Grand Prix was perplexing to me.

The fact we're even having this conversation is proof of the fact that anything Hamilton-related gets overblown. Virtually any other driver and the narrative would've been: "Oh, he had the rear tire sealing portion of the diffuser damaged. Explains a bit of the gap." Instead of: "OMG Mercedes with the propaganda."

Have a nice day, and apologies if you misunderstood the intent of my friendly banter. Not trying to be prickly. So, sorry if it came off that way. Was going for humor.
Last edited by zibby43 on Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:33 pm

PhillipM wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:10 pm
The damage doesn't even need to make a massive impact, if you loose a couple of tenths, and your balance is out, then you start struggling with keeping tyres in the right window and wear, so you may as well do exactly what Lewis did and realise once you're dropping back from Bottas that you may as well just nurse the car, turn down the engine, and watch the tyres on the way home.
You try to chase down Bottas and hope you have half a second over him just in the driving - and you start sliding the tyres around, kill them and all of a sudden you need two pitstops and you're looking at the back of a Ferrari at the finish - with a load of engine wear you need to carry into the next 6-7 races.

You could see Hamilton had pace in hand and was just coasting home as every time Verstappen got to DRS range Lewis just drove away - he was letting Max just sit in the dirty air all the time to kill Max's tyres.
Pretty tidily sums it all up.

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:22 am

A great comparison of the starts Hamilton/Bottas made, followed by a very straightfoward explanation by Rob Smedley on how Hamilton's floor damage robbed the diffuser of performance (which had negative effects on stability/balance, overall rear downforce, and tire degradation).


Juzh
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Juzh » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:16 am

PhillipM wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:10 pm
he was letting Max just sit in the dirty air all the time to kill Max's tyres.
Didn't really go to plan the whole tyre killing thing, since verstappen was able to do a string of personal best laps towards the end despite sitting in hamilton's wake for most of the time.

GPR -A
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by GPR -A » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:33 am

Juzh wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:16 am
PhillipM wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:10 pm
he was letting Max just sit in the dirty air all the time to kill Max's tyres.
Didn't really go to plan the whole tyre killing thing, since verstappen was able to do a string of personal best laps towards the end despite sitting in hamilton's wake for most of the time.
Thanks to Pirelli and Honda's new found power. Not sure if killing the tyres was the plan but I suppose, both drivers were doing their own thing.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Just_a_fan » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:45 am

Juzh wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:16 am
PhillipM wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:10 pm
he was letting Max just sit in the dirty air all the time to kill Max's tyres.
Didn't really go to plan the whole tyre killing thing, since verstappen was able to do a string of personal best laps towards the end despite sitting in hamilton's wake for most of the time.
Backing off and then trying to get the fastest lap is one thing, being able to get close enough to attack is quite another. If Max had sat in the attack posiiton for a few laps his tyres might well have been ruined.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Juzh
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Juzh » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:35 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:45 am
Juzh wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:16 am
PhillipM wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:10 pm
he was letting Max just sit in the dirty air all the time to kill Max's tyres.
Didn't really go to plan the whole tyre killing thing, since verstappen was able to do a string of personal best laps towards the end despite sitting in hamilton's wake for most of the time.
Backing off and then trying to get the fastest lap is one thing, being able to get close enough to attack is quite another. If Max had sat in the attack posiiton for a few laps his tyres might well have been ruined.
verstappen was sitting at 1-2s range from hamilton for almost the whole second stint and his laptimes gradually improved as the fuel burned off, he also battled and overtook Vettel before that. Safe to say tires weren't going to go off anytime soon.
I don't think hamilton was really trying to ruin verstappen's tyres, rather he was just minding his own bussiness. You don't just allow a car to be that close to you for lap after lap simply to kill his tires. One small error are you could be done and dusted. Also, this only works when you have at least some pace against the attacking car, unlike ferrari which had none.

PhillipM
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by PhillipM » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:24 pm

He did have some pace, but there is no point at all pushing your car to keep him 10 seconds down the road and then having to keep that pace up until the end of the race, when you can let him sit 2 seconds back in the dirty air, slow his pace down, slow your pace down, and happily look after your tyres and engine and just use full power mode on the odd lap where he gets close to keep him at bay.

You say it didn't work because he got faster - well, so did the Mercs, it's relative, in clean air he was doing times a second a lap faster.

Schuttelberg
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Schuttelberg » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:42 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:28 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:09 pm
. . . and not judge them unnecessarily without knowing them.
Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:58 am
Lewis tends to behave like an over petulant child when things don't go his way and I think he was just done with it after the start.

Pot, meet kettle.

Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:09 pm
I don't see much respect there but anyway.
Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more with that comment, either. It seems you subconsciously grouped yourself into the folks I describe as the irrational Lewis haters. That wasn't my intention. If you are not one of those people, then fair play to you, but describing Lewis as a petulant child during/after the '19 Australian Grand Prix was perplexing to me.

The fact we're even having this conversation is proof of the fact that anything Hamilton-related gets overblown. Virtually any other driver and the narrative would've been: "Oh, he had the rear tire sealing portion of the diffuser damaged. Explains a bit of the gap." Instead of: "OMG Mercedes with the propaganda."

Have a nice day, and apologies if you misunderstood the intent of my friendly banter. Not trying to be prickly. So, sorry if it came off that way. Was going for humor.
And I apologise to you if I came across as high headed or looking for a fight. I think this should be the end of this. I get what you intended and I was perhaps a knob to not get it in the first place.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:07 pm

Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:42 pm
And I apologise to you if I came across as high headed or looking for a fight. I think this should be the end of this. I get what you intended and I was perhaps a knob to not get it in the first place.
All is good! Just a misunderstanding between us. Have a great weekend! Appreciate the kind words.

Schuttelberg
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Schuttelberg » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:27 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:07 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:42 pm
And I apologise to you if I came across as high headed or looking for a fight. I think this should be the end of this. I get what you intended and I was perhaps a knob to not get it in the first place.
All is good! Just a misunderstanding between us. Have a great weekend! Appreciate the kind words.
You too my friend!
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

Morteza
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Morteza » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:32 pm

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

GPR -A
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by GPR -A » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:20 am

I couldn't stop but keep chuckling all the way through the article. :) Quite a "self confessed" conspiracy theory letter to Toto. I am sure there are many who feels the same, but can't prove it.

Toto would wish if this was all true if not some of it.

Link -> INSIDE LINE: TIME TO STOP THE BULLSHIT TOTO WOLFF

The long article, in the end of it, sums it all up in the following sentence.
Your condescending sympathy for your prey is akin to older boys playing footie with kids in the park, the bigger lads make the young guys shine, egg them on, but always beat them by a goal or more and demonstrate condescending pity for the defeated little guys allowing to believe they had a chance.