The way things seem to be going Merc will have a harder fight in 21 than they will next year. The Honda RBR is developing very well and Ferrari in not performing as it should. They may see it as a case of taking whats on offer soonest rather than one missed is one gone for ever. (championships that is)Jambier wrote: ↑06 Aug 2019, 14:17On the other hand, what is the risk of taking Ocon ?
Worst scenario is that he is slow like Gasly, but I believe he can match Bottas speed, and allow Mercedes to evaluate him for the future.
Then of course if it is a Gasly like situation, they still have Russel for 2021.
Interested in what makes you think that? I feel that the results this year flatter Mercedes, in reality they won at least a couple of races that should have gone to Ferrari and now Red Bull have closed the gap such that even the second half of the year looks like it will be a real fight - Monza and Spa should go to Ferrari who are miles ahead with straight line speed while Singapore could easily turn out to be a Red Bull track and Mexico may expose the high altitude cooling weakness of Mercedes again.Big Tea wrote: ↑06 Aug 2019, 14:22The way things seem to be going Merc will have a harder fight in 21 than they will next year. The Honda RBR is developing very well and Ferrari in not performing as it should. They may see it as a case of taking whats on offer soonest rather than one missed is one gone for ever. (championships that is)
Monza and Spa should go to Ferrari? It's that time of the season when new power units would be brought to Spa. I posted an article in the W10 forum, as reported in Motorsport Italia, Petronas has brought a new fuel to Hungary, which is worth 18 HP! There is going to be a Spec 3 for Spa and a low down force package. All of which, should make Mercedes more "competitive".pb6797 wrote: ↑06 Aug 2019, 16:30Interested in what makes you think that? I feel that the results this year flatter Mercedes, in reality they won at least a couple of races that should have gone to Ferrari and now Red Bull have closed the gap such that even the second half of the year looks like it will be a real fight - Monza and Spa should go to Ferrari who are miles ahead with straight line speed while Singapore could easily turn out to be a Red Bull track and Mexico may expose the high altitude cooling weakness of Mercedes again.
With no change to the regulations for 2020, on the current gaps it looks to me like that will be a close fight all year (and if Ferrari get their slow speed cornering sorted and/or Honda make another performance leap it may even be a walk over for a non-Mercedes team).
Red Bull are improving, max is improving and one way or another the No 2 driver at Red Bull will be scoring more points next year. Ferrari, even when they are not right there will get in the mix which would cost Merc points, so I can only see it being harder for them. Their options are go with what you know or take a chance. The more teams fighting for wins, the more need there will be for the No 2 driver to step into the seat, and Bottas has shown he can do it. Yes, he has muffed up a few, but then again Ocon was not the clockwork finisher either.pb6797 wrote: ↑06 Aug 2019, 16:30Interested in what makes you think that? I feel that the results this year flatter Mercedes, in reality they won at least a couple of races that should have gone to Ferrari and now Red Bull have closed the gap such that even the second half of the year looks like it will be a real fight - Monza and Spa should go to Ferrari who are miles ahead with straight line speed while Singapore could easily turn out to be a Red Bull track and Mexico may expose the high altitude cooling weakness of Mercedes again.Big Tea wrote: ↑06 Aug 2019, 14:22The way things seem to be going Merc will have a harder fight in 21 than they will next year. The Honda RBR is developing very well and Ferrari in not performing as it should. They may see it as a case of taking whats on offer soonest rather than one missed is one gone for ever. (championships that is)
With no change to the regulations for 2020, on the current gaps it looks to me like that will be a close fight all year (and if Ferrari get their slow speed cornering sorted and/or Honda make another performance leap it may even be a walk over for a non-Mercedes team).
Big Tea wrote: ↑06 Aug 2019, 14:07I am not that sure Ocon would be a better option than Bottas. If Merc take him I also feel sure it would be on short contract. Merc do not have to score 1-2 in every race, just enough to put them (safely) in front. They know exactly where they stand with Bottas
I still have a feeling Bottas will keep the seat warm for Russell
Jambier wrote: ↑06 Aug 2019, 14:17On the other hand, what is the risk of taking Ocon ?
Worst scenario is that he is slow like Gasly, but I believe he can match Bottas speed, and allow Mercedes to evaluate him for the future.
Then of course if it is a Gasly like situation, they still have Russel for 2021.
Well, if Ocon performs like Gasly they risk losing WCC if RB is competitive.Jambier wrote: ↑06 Aug 2019, 14:17On the other hand, what is the risk of taking Ocon ?
Worst scenario is that he is slow like Gasly, but I believe he can match Bottas speed, and allow Mercedes to evaluate him for the future.
Then of course if it is a Gasly like situation, they still have Russel for 2021.
Pyrone89 wrote: ↑06 Aug 2019, 22:36One of the advantages Ocon has over Bottas is that he has shown that he is willing to do anything to stop Verstappen from passing even if it means crashing, probably due to their history. And Verstappen is looking like Merc main rival now. Just a bit like how some drivers are totally useless in defending until their teammate is behind and they suddenly defend like their lives depend on it (Massa for example with Alonso after Hockenheim 2010)
You keep repeating this untruth. Verstappen turned into him in Brazil (whether Ocon should've been on the apex, where Verstappen knew he was, is another discussion for another thread) and, in the next race, when Verstappen overtook Ocon they clashed again. Far from it being what you are repeatedly presenting it as, Verstappen described it as "I thought to myself 'If he shuts the door, I'll push him off the track.' It may have been revenge for Brazil. I liked it. It felt good."Pyrone89 wrote: ↑06 Aug 2019, 22:36One of the advantages Ocon has over Bottas is that he has shown that he is willing to do anything to stop Verstappen from passing even if it means crashing, probably due to their history. And Verstappen is looking like Merc main rival now. Just a bit like how some drivers are totally useless in defending until their teammate is behind and they suddenly defend like their lives depend on it (Massa for example with Alonso after Hockenheim 2010)
Until he has the right equipment, the verdict has to be put on hold. Ocon has beaten Verstappen in F3, which is a fact and before he started his F1 career, there was definitely an aura around his talent. When any top class driver drives for mid-field teams, it starts to fade away in public eye. From the most recent memory, who knew how good Ricciardo was until he was promoted to RB in 2014? No big money was on him to get the seat and there were rumors of Kimi taking the seat vacated by Webber. We all know how that turned out. Same applies to Leclerc, while he had decent performance in Sauber, nothing was out of the world. But he now is proving to be a top talent.
Beat is a strong word for what actually happened. Verstappen had an engine penalty relegatimg him to the back 3 times in a row and was driving for a midfield team who had yet to win. Ocon had the Prema powerhouse team.GPR -A wrote: ↑07 Aug 2019, 09:21Until he has the right equipment, the verdict has to be put on hold. Ocon has beaten Verstappen in F3, which is a fact and before he started his F1 career, there was definitely an aura around his talent. When any top class driver drives for mid-field teams, it starts to fade away in public eye. From the most recent memory, who knew how good Ricciardo was until he was promoted to RB in 2014? No big money was on him to get the seat and there were rumors of Kimi taking the seat vacated by Webber. We all know how that turned out. Same applies to Leclerc, while he had decent performance in Sauber, nothing was out of the world. But he now is proving to be a top talent.
Only time will tell if Ocon can live up to it. It's almost impossible for anyone to match Lewis. If Ocon gets beaten by Lewis, all he needs to do is stay close to him, both in quali and races. One thing Bottas did was to come close in qualifying, but is nowhere in races. If Ocon can do better than Bottas in races, along with doing well in quali, then he has time on his side to achieve bigger things. Ocon has beaten Perez in qualifying, hand down. So there is one lap pace.