2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Marc.W
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Location: Belfast, N.I

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Juzh wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:54 pm
Sainz's q3 lap 1.28.304 (P7)
https://streamable.com/b23zb
https://streamable.com/b23zb

vs albon - knocking on RB's door, less than 0.5s off. Mclaren was for whatever reason much superior to red bull in slow speed hairpin and final chikane, sainz gains loads of time trough there. They're lacking a bit of pace in the race still.
https://streamable.com/pnccm
https://streamable.com/pnccm
You can really see how the Renault PU is costing time, lots of wasted KPH compared to the Honda

McL-H
McL-H
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 3:18 pm

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Marc.W wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:17 pm
Juzh wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:54 pm
Sainz's q3 lap 1.28.304 (P7)
https://streamable.com/b23zb
https://streamable.com/b23zb

vs albon - knocking on RB's door, less than 0.5s off. Mclaren was for whatever reason much superior to red bull in slow speed hairpin and final chikane, sainz gains loads of time trough there. They're lacking a bit of pace in the race still.
https://streamable.com/pnccm
https://streamable.com/pnccm
You can really see how the Renault PU is costing time, lots of wasted KPH compared to the Honda
From the comparison it is indeed evident that Renault lacks power compared to Honda. Right before the chicane the battery is finished. With the same engine we’d be more or less equal..

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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McMika98 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:53 am
Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:49 am
Did the Albon v Norris incident even get investigated?
No need. Norris drove into Albon they were side by side going into the chichane. Obviously Norrris fans are in rage but he could have closed the door or got him in the second corner. Danny Ric did a similar move on Stroll and they didnt touch.
Yeah it was the other way around. Norris got wa cked so hard he didn't make the corner. Went clear through and missed the next corner too. Albon used the McLaren as his brakes.

That being said. They're not calling that any more. I believe 20% of the time or more. That move will end up with 1 of the 2 cars unable to continue.

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Marc.W wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:17 pm
Juzh wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:54 pm
Sainz's q3 lap 1.28.304 (P7)
https://streamable.com/b23zb
https://streamable.com/b23zb

vs albon - knocking on RB's door, less than 0.5s off. Mclaren was for whatever reason much superior to red bull in slow speed hairpin and final chikane, sainz gains loads of time trough there. They're lacking a bit of pace in the race still.
https://streamable.com/pnccm
https://streamable.com/pnccm
You can really see how the Renault PU is costing time, lots of wasted KPH compared to the Honda
What you are seeing there is McLaren running more wing. The up hill battle with No DRS clearly shows the extra DF they are running. As for battery power, they both run out it several times in S3. During the race I didn't not witness any of the Merc or Ferrari powered cars rear red lights flash in S3. Let me know if anyone did.

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Marc.W
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:08 pm
Location: Belfast, N.I

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:19 pm
Marc.W wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:17 pm
Juzh wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:54 pm
Sainz's q3 lap 1.28.304 (P7)
https://streamable.com/b23zb
https://streamable.com/b23zb

vs albon - knocking on RB's door, less than 0.5s off. Mclaren was for whatever reason much superior to red bull in slow speed hairpin and final chikane, sainz gains loads of time trough there. They're lacking a bit of pace in the race still.
https://streamable.com/pnccm
https://streamable.com/pnccm
You can really see how the Renault PU is costing time, lots of wasted KPH compared to the Honda
What you are seeing there is McLaren running more wing. The up hill battle with No DRS clearly shows the extra DF they are running. As for battery power, they both run out it several times in S3. During the race I didn't not witness any of the Merc or Ferrari powered cars rear red lights flash in S3. Let me know if anyone did.
I'm inclined to disagree, the car hits VMAX and then drops speed, that's not wing related

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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McL-H wrote:
Marc.W wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:17 pm
Juzh wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:54 pm
Sainz's q3 lap 1.28.304 (P7)
https://streamable.com/b23zb
https://streamable.com/b23zb

vs albon - knocking on RB's door, less than 0.5s off. Mclaren was for whatever reason much superior to red bull in slow speed hairpin and final chikane, sainz gains loads of time trough there. They're lacking a bit of pace in the race still.
https://streamable.com/pnccm
https://streamable.com/pnccm
You can really see how the Renault PU is costing time, lots of wasted KPH compared to the Honda
From the comparison it is indeed evident that Renault lacks power compared to Honda. Right before the chicane the battery is finished. With the same engine we’d be more or less equal..
The speed before the chicane will be greatly influenced by the amount of downforce/drag of the car... McLaren used a lot of DF in this track (showed by their performance in S1)... It isn’t surprising that their top speed would suffer due to it... I don’t think the differential in top speed was engine related.


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SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Marc.W wrote:
diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:19 pm
Marc.W wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:17 pm
You can really see how the Renault PU is costing time, lots of wasted KPH compared to the Honda
What you are seeing there is McLaren running more wing. The up hill battle with No DRS clearly shows the extra DF they are running. As for battery power, they both run out it several times in S3. During the race I didn't not witness any of the Merc or Ferrari powered cars rear red lights flash in S3. Let me know if anyone did.
I'm inclined to disagree, the car hits VMAX and then drops speed, that's not wing related
No, the cars won’t hit “VMAX” and then drop speed... The effect of drag (induced by a bigger wing more downforce) will actually prevent them to continue to accelerate at high speed (which you are interpreting as lack of deployment).

It was a conscious decision by the team to sacrifice top speed in S3 for a better S1 and S2, as well as better tire management during the race.


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BrunoH
BrunoH
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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the track was always going to be very green so more Downforce was a good idea

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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I just watched the race, and I feel that Albon did a clear dive bomb down the inside and would never have been able to make the move legally. I am really surprised they let it go, it's the kind of move that will often times lead to one or both cars retiring. I guess the lesson is to always defend the inside line, Leclerc learned it against Verstappen in Austria and people learn it every race. Problem with doing it consistently is that doing it lap after lap will lose you a lot of time.

I don't fault Norris for fighting, in my opinion with Verstappen out and Red Bull not that far ahead on pace, they were racing with Red Bull for positions today. Sainz was almost able to do it.

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Marc.W wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:07 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:19 pm
Marc.W wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:17 pm


You can really see how the Renault PU is costing time, lots of wasted KPH compared to the Honda
What you are seeing there is McLaren running more wing. The up hill battle with No DRS clearly shows the extra DF they are running. As for battery power, they both run out it several times in S3. During the race I didn't not witness any of the Merc or Ferrari powered cars rear red lights flash in S3. Let me know if anyone did.
I'm inclined to disagree, the car hits VMAX and then drops speed, that's not wing related
VMAX?

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:17 pm
Marc.W wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:07 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:19 pm


What you are seeing there is McLaren running more wing. The up hill battle with No DRS clearly shows the extra DF they are running. As for battery power, they both run out it several times in S3. During the race I didn't not witness any of the Merc or Ferrari powered cars rear red lights flash in S3. Let me know if anyone did.
I'm inclined to disagree, the car hits VMAX and then drops speed, that's not wing related
VMAX?
There is no VMax. The car is full throttle. Its generating electricity full out. If it runs out, 2 seconds later, it will have enough to re-engauge. Don't believe me? watch the STR when LeClerc is passing down around 180R. Flashing red lights all over the place on STR.

Don't BS yourself. Be factual and non bias.

chrisgr
chrisgr
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Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:07 am

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Andreas Seidl said that the debris from Leclerc's FW was caught up in Norris front-right brake duct. Thats why they pitted him.

Bisonas
Bisonas
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Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:56 am

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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McMika98 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:53 am
Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:49 am
Did the Albon v Norris incident even get investigated?
No need. Norris drove into Albon they were side by side going into the chichane. Obviously Norrris fans are in rage but he could have closed the door or got him in the second corner. Danny Ric did a similar move on Stroll and they didnt touch.
First of all Norris didn't drove into Albon. If he had both of them would be out of the race. Norris turned in for apex as he would normally do having a much proper line. Albon dived to took the inside yes, the worst line to take a corner in optimum speed and the best line to push someone out of the track on the exit while making the pass.
Albon dived coming in a speed and in an angle that it would be impossible to make the corner without going wide at the exit and push who ever is alongside him, out of the track. Norris knowing all that just decided to cut the corner, go straight and avoid a more heavy contact.

He already had overheating brakes from Leclerc debris and he couldn't defend or brake normally and he was gonna pit in that lap anyway to avoid getting his brakes on fire.

It was a racing incident in did, but tbh is one of those moves that comes to the defender to decide if he really wants to put both cars out of the race or not. Its like bulling your way in front of someone daring him to make heavy contact and roll the dice of luck on who gets a DNF or a puncture.

EDIT: i am not mad at Albon. And Norris won't be so mad either with his friend. Albon has to prove and show a certain mentality in his bit to retain his seat at Red Bull. It's understandable that he will go for such moves especially in the first 1-2 years of his f1 carrer. Norris is a great driver but he is more polite in the track than others. He will have to start putting some elbows out sooner that later though.

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Juzh
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:22 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:17 pm
Marc.W wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:07 pm


I'm inclined to disagree, the car hits VMAX and then drops speed, that's not wing related
VMAX?
There is no VMax. The car is full throttle. Its generating electricity full out. If it runs out, 2 seconds later, it will have enough to re-engauge. Don't believe me? watch the STR when LeClerc is passing down around 180R. Flashing red lights all over the place on STR.

Don't BS yourself. Be factual and non bias.
You're dreaming mate. We're talking about quali laps here. And it's clear as day mclaren has ZERO charge left after 130R on that quali run. That's why it's forced to run both mgu-k and mgu-h in generator mode in order to recover energy for the run to the finish line after the chicane. Running mgu-k in generator mode when going full throttle, while providing lots of energy recovery (basically dumping fuel to fill the battery), is like holding on the brakes. It's obviously been calculated this is the best aproach given the limitations of renault PU, but is still far inferior to all other PUs on the grid, which the way I see it, only need to stop deployment, but dont need to run mgu-k in generator mode before the braking event as they have enough energy still in reserve.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Juzh wrote:
diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:22 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:17 pm
VMAX?
There is no VMax. The car is full throttle. Its generating electricity full out. If it runs out, 2 seconds later, it will have enough to re-engauge. Don't believe me? watch the STR when LeClerc is passing down around 180R. Flashing red lights all over the place on STR.

Don't BS yourself. Be factual and non bias.
You're dreaming mate. We're talking about quali laps here. And it's clear as day mclaren has ZERO charge left after 130R on that quali run. That's why it's forced to run both mgu-k and mgu-h in generator mode in order to recover energy for the run to the finish line after the chicane. Running mgu-k in generator mode when going full throttle, while providing lots of energy recovery (basically dumping fuel to fill the battery), is like holding on the brakes. It's obviously been calculated this is the best aproach given the limitations of renault PU, but is still far inferior to all other PUs on the grid, which the way I see it, only need to stop deployment, but dont need to run mgu-k in generator mode before the braking event as they have enough energy still in reserve.
I haven’t watched any footage showing McLaren harvesting in S3... And it isn’t clear that McLaren was out of battery after 130R as you suggest.

What is clear is that McLaren was the third fastest team in S3, which is interesting considering that they piled more downforce than most in the car and that apparently they run out of battery before the end of the lap.

I haven’t heard/read any comments from the team in regards to deployment or lack thereof all season either.


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