2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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M840TR
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:36 am

Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:35 pm
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:20 pm
I can't wait btw for the next year to see if Mclaren and Renault Engines will progress even more.
I’m pretty confident that next years car will be a reasonable step forward. Seeing the progress they made during the course of the season with a new car project, shows they know what they’re doing. The Renault engine though, I don’t share same level of confidence, I only have hope Renault continue to make progress.
By virtue of design stability they’ll have a more reliable engine at least if still not very competitive.

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:43 am

M840TR wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:36 am
Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:35 pm
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:20 pm
I can't wait btw for the next year to see if Mclaren and Renault Engines will progress even more.
I’m pretty confident that next years car will be a reasonable step forward. Seeing the progress they made during the course of the season with a new car project, shows they know what they’re doing. The Renault engine though, I don’t share same level of confidence, I only have hope Renault continue to make progress.
By virtue of design stability they’ll have a more reliable engine at least if still not very competitive.
Unless they stay aggressive. I'm not convinced the other PUs have any edge at most tracks. Some of the power tracks, maybe, but I think the PU are close enough that difference could be over come by aero.
Last edited by diffuser on Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mwillems
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mwillems » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:19 pm

Red Bull were winning last year with the Renault engine in a less competitive state than it was this year.

For me, at least, this tells me the issue to focus on is not the engine. The Mclaren design is a good distance behind the front runners. This is not to knock the progress Mclarenmade this year, but I think that the difference between us and the front is mostly the car and to a smaller degree, the engine. To be honest I don't see much of a point knocking Renault for anything but reliability. Even then, if we had a Merc engine this year, we'd be fourth and still a big distance behind RB with little to no chance to compete for podiums on merit.

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by godlameroso » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:15 pm

The difference is just over a second which is still a big gap, part of the McLaren's step forward has been Renault's power unit improvement. You can clearly see Sains is much faster than Alonso on the straights. If they want to challenge both will need a step forward next season. To be honest their fight with Renault is plenty motivation to close the gap to the front because in race trim their car seems to be slightly faster than the McLaren. Perhaps if McLaren was comfortably ahead of the midfield it would hamper their development since they'd be feeling less pressure to stay ahead of those behind them.

McLaren and Renault have each other to drive their chassis designs forward because they have a known baseline to work around. The gap between the two comes down to the chassis aero drivers and team, precisely what they need to catch up to the front.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:33 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:15 pm
The difference is just over a second which is still a big gap, part of the McLaren's step forward has been Renault's power unit improvement. You can clearly see Sains is much faster than Alonso on the straights. If they want to challenge both will need a step forward next season. To be honest their fight with Renault is plenty motivation to close the gap to the front because in race trim their car seems to be slightly faster than the McLaren. Perhaps if McLaren was comfortably ahead of the midfield it would hamper their development since they'd be feeling less pressure to stay ahead of those behind them.

McLaren and Renault have each other to drive their chassis designs forward because they have a known baseline to work around. The gap between the two comes down to the chassis aero drivers and team, precisely what they need to catch up to the front.
No doubt that the PU improvement has times down. My estimation is that more 90% of that time comes from aero/chassis improvements vs other teams.

agreed both need improvement. Standing pat is falling behind ...

I think alot of time Renault have been flattered from not being in the top 10 in quali. and having their choice of tire to start the race on. So I'm not convinced that Renault have faster race pace, with the exception with that last race.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by SmallSoldier » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:23 pm

godlameroso wrote:The difference is just over a second which is still a big gap, part of the McLaren's step forward has been Renault's power unit improvement. You can clearly see Sains is much faster than Alonso on the straights. If they want to challenge both will need a step forward next season. To be honest their fight with Renault is plenty motivation to close the gap to the front because in race trim their car seems to be slightly faster than the McLaren. Perhaps if McLaren was comfortably ahead of the midfield it would hamper their development since they'd be feeling less pressure to stay ahead of those behind them.

McLaren and Renault have each other to drive their chassis designs forward because they have a known baseline to work around. The gap between the two comes down to the chassis aero drivers and team, precisely what they need to catch up to the front.
I don’t think that the improvement is due to the engine, which no doubt has improved from last year... The speed of Mclaren on the straights is due to a less draggy concept/setup... Last year, because of their aero issues, they had to add a huge amount of drag on the car to create enough downforce and that hindered them on the straights.


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GPR-A
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by GPR-A » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:58 am

SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:23 pm
godlameroso wrote:The difference is just over a second which is still a big gap, part of the McLaren's step forward has been Renault's power unit improvement. You can clearly see Sains is much faster than Alonso on the straights. If they want to challenge both will need a step forward next season. To be honest their fight with Renault is plenty motivation to close the gap to the front because in race trim their car seems to be slightly faster than the McLaren. Perhaps if McLaren was comfortably ahead of the midfield it would hamper their development since they'd be feeling less pressure to stay ahead of those behind them.

McLaren and Renault have each other to drive their chassis designs forward because they have a known baseline to work around. The gap between the two comes down to the chassis aero drivers and team, precisely what they need to catch up to the front.
I don’t think that the improvement is due to the engine, which no doubt has improved from last year... The speed of Mclaren on the straights is due to a less draggy concept/setup... Last year, because of their aero issues, they had to add a huge amount of drag on the car to create enough downforce and that hindered them on the straights.


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Agreed. Last year in S2, the best time from Renault was from Hulk which was 37.695 and Alonso did 38.284, which is over half a second difference in just one sector between two cars on same engine.

This year in S2, Sainz did 37.101 and Ricciardo did 37.275. Compared to Renault chassis, McLaren has made up almost 8 tenths in that Sector alone this year. Compared to their own 2018 chassis, McLaren has made up almost 1.2 seconds in that sector, whereas Renault has gained 4 tenths over their previous chassis (most of that could potentially be PU).

So, it's clear. The chassis improvement has played a huge part in the turn of performance.

Mattchu
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Mattchu » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:39 pm

diffuser wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:33 pm

agreed both need improvement. Standing pat is falling behind ...
Is that Postman Pats brother :-P

I think McLaren will do okay next year, from the video posted earlier in the thread they certainly seem to have a very happy team without the huge pressure that McLaren used to face. A happy team usually makes for a good team, hopefully a couple of podiums next year and not just best of the rest...

Lucky
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Lucky » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:57 pm


JRindt
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by JRindt » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:40 pm

Holy c**p...! Wolff is not attending the Brazilian GP to take care of “other open topics” in Europe. I wonder if it’s something related to their future in F1 vis-a-vis FE.
If they do leave, this is huge for McLaren and a fantastic coup by Seidl and Brown.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... tez4I.html

Macklaren
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Macklaren » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:01 pm

JRindt wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:40 pm
Holy c**p...! Wolff is not attending the Brazilian GP to take care of “other open topics” in Europe. I wonder if it’s something related to their future in F1 vis-a-vis FE.
If they do leave, this is huge for McLaren and a fantastic coup by Seidl and Brown.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... tez4I.html
This is also interesting and potentially relevant. Language sounds like hedging. Maybe just negotiations...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mer ... /4595817/

mwillems
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mwillems » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:32 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:15 pm
The difference is just over a second which is still a big gap, part of the McLaren's step forward has been Renault's power unit improvement. You can clearly see Sains is much faster than Alonso on the straights. If they want to challenge both will need a step forward next season. To be honest their fight with Renault is plenty motivation to close the gap to the front because in race trim their car seems to be slightly faster than the McLaren. Perhaps if McLaren was comfortably ahead of the midfield it would hamper their development since they'd be feeling less pressure to stay ahead of those behind them.

McLaren and Renault have each other to drive their chassis designs forward because they have a known baseline to work around. The gap between the two comes down to the chassis aero drivers and team, precisely what they need to catch up to the front.
I think it has been a big step forward, Sainz himself noticed the difference in power between this year and last years car, and stated that "the issue with speed this year won't be down to the engine".

But the point I make is about the time remaining to bridge not the time already made up. The time to make up is unlikely to be the engine I think. Especially consider that at least for some part of the year, Honda was likely to be either on a par or behind the Renault. Since the gap to RB has not decreased, I do think that most of the deficit between us and them is car.

As for the difference on the straights, if we can only exit corners slowly with the 2018 car, the straights will be slow, particularly if we are running higher downforce because of the car's poor chassis. Not sure you can compare 2018 to 2019 performance that easily, other than to say 2018 was way slower.

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:34 pm

JRindt wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:40 pm
Holy c**p...! Wolff is not attending the Brazilian GP to take care of “other open topics” in Europe. I wonder if it’s something related to their future in F1 vis-a-vis FE.
If they do leave, this is huge for McLaren and a fantastic coup by Seidl and Brown.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... tez4I.html

relax Frankie and go to Hollywood.

Both Ferrari and Merc have confirmed , they are going nowhere.

AnthonyG
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by AnthonyG » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:40 pm

Thank you for sharing, but could you also translate tweets like these?
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:40 pm

Mattchu wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:39 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:33 pm

agreed both need improvement. Standing pat is falling behind ...
Is that Postman Pats brother :-P

I think McLaren will do okay next year, from the video posted earlier in the thread they certainly seem to have a very happy team without the huge pressure that McLaren used to face. A happy team usually makes for a good team, hopefully a couple of podiums next year and not just best of the rest...

So I don't think it's a given that they have a good year next year. All the changes that Brown made are going into effect for 2020. Really the 2019 car was designed by Pat Fry and whoever was not canned at team McLaren.

2020 is a pivotal year. it is the first test for this new team. On top of that, you never know what other teams are doing, till they put it on the track.


So hopeful but cautious for me.