2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
diffuser wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:58 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:36 pm
I don’t care what their age is... If they are faster than the drivers in the car right now, they could be 80 for all it matters.

Is the trend to get them younger and younger? Seems like it, is that a recipe for success? That’s still to be determined.

Experience seems to be more important than age today... Hamilton, Carlos, Kimi, Daniel, Perez, aren’t necessarily young drivers... The only situation of a young driver outscoring an old one this season was in Ferrari.

I don’t care if they screw a young driver, as long as they get the best possible driver for the team... If that is the current line up, that’s great... If that implies changes, let’s make them.


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I agree with that too, It's stupid not to look at someone because of his age. also when you look at a driver like Max ....Even if his car better matched his challengers, his youth and lack of maturity would have been a impediment to a championship.
I can see the person that down voted me has the same level of maturity as Max
If you were downvoted, that’s absurd... Why can’t people just have a discussion and different perspectives.

In regards to Norris vs Sainz... My only point was that they were closer than it seemed based on the points... Which I would say speak very well for someone like Norris on his first season in F1 (not considering also the lack of maturity and experience compared to Lando).

I get nervous and anxious when I race... And I’m doing it as a hobby... I can’t imagine the amount of adrenaline and emotions that need to be handled by the drivers in Formula 1... Doing so, at a relative young age, on ridiculously fast cars and the world watching your every move it’s very impressive.


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izzy
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:21 am
I can see the person that down voted me has the same level of maturity as Max
Max would be embarrassed to have someone "supporting" him like that. It's just pathetic. Anyway i've neutered it

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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izzy wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:39 am
diffuser wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:21 am
I can see the person that down voted me has the same level of maturity as Max
Max would be embarrassed to have someone "supporting" him like that. It's just pathetic. Anyway i've neutered it
Thanks!

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Reading the "2021 Body work rules analyzed" here on F1Technical. The first thing that strikes me is "The limit will knock some 100-200mm off the wheelbase". I think that pretty much guaranties that the 2020 McLaren's Wheelbase will not get longer. Wikipedia has it at Wheelbase 3,550 mm (140 in) adjustable +-25 mm (1 in).

So they do have a whole 50 cm or 20 in it can grow .... So maybe I changed my mine and it can get longer ...

Lucky
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Andres125sx
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proteus wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:57 pm
Why would anyone with his right mind take a 40 year old driver anyway? Other teams tend to take them younger and younger, and Mclaren will screw them all over by taking theirs out of retirement homes instead. Take that for superior team managment.....
So driver talent is irrelevant, it´s age all that matters?

Alonso is 38 btw
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And someone talked about Sainz as an old driver, but he´s 25 years old

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:48 pm
diffuser wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:49 pm


Both of them had their fair share of issues... Nevertheless, I would say that even though Carlos outperformed Landó this year, if we consider that this was Lando’s first year in F1, what he did is quiet an achievement.

I would say that if they are close to each other performance wise or Carlos with an slight edge against Lando and you had the chance to get a proven commodity as RIC or VET, I would keep Lando... He has a larger ceiling in F1 by how his first season progressed and he could become a “house” driver for Mclaren.


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So we're, or at least I was, looking at a 2021 scenario that their was a large discrepancy in the performance between the two drivers in 2020. I think both drivers have showed enough to merit another year and in Norris's case even if he hadn't I would give another year..

So neither driver can sit on their laurels but Norris has more to prove... Norris was Sainz's equal for most of the first half of 2019 but Sainz Dominated in the 2nd half. So there is a trend there that Norris needs to correct/reverse.


I just threw the Alonso thing out there, I don't have any data to compare the drivers. McLaren do. I don't want Vettel that's is for sure. He has, In my opinion, imploded under pressure at Ferrari the last 2 years.
I don’t agree with you that Sainz “Dominated” the second half of the season... Undeniably, he outperformed Norris, but Norris wasn’t squashed by Sainz.

In Spa, Norris was comfortably finishing the race in 5th when he had mechanical issues... I would give this race to Norris

In Monza, Norris had a good race to finish in the points after starting from the back of the grid... I would tie them in performance, not fair for Carlos since a pitstop took him out of the race.

In Singapore, Carlos was unlucky and touched with Hulk, Norris managed to stay behind Albon even though, once again the pitstop was slower than the ones around him and got stuck behind GRO for a while... I would give this race to Norris

In Russia, Carlos outqualified Lando by 1 tenth... And they both managed good races from there... Carlos won Qualy and ended up ahead of Norris... I would give this one to Carlos

In Japan, Carlos also outqualified Lando by a tenth and a half... Lando’s race was over when he touched with Albon... Definitely Carlos race

In Mexico, both were having a great race P6/P7 and Lando got taken out of the race with a bad pitstop... Carlos couldn’t switch the Hards on... Not a great race for either, let’s call it a tie.

In the US, Lando was having the better weekend... A mistake in Q3 placed him behind Carlos for the race, but he drove a great race and finished ahead of Carlos... This one goes to Norris.

In Brazil, Carlos drove one of his best races... Yes, he had a little help from Lando letting him through... But this one is definitely Carlos.

In Abu Dhabi, Lando outqualified Carlos and finished ahead of him at the end of the race... Pretty close, but I would give it to Norris.

In my opinion, Norris got the upper hand in 4 races in the second half... Carlos got the upper hand in 3 and they had very similar performance (a tie) in 2 races... I don’t see Carlos domination in the second half... Did he outscored Norris? By a country mile, but the point difference doesn’t reflect what happened in the weekends.



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Actually I think it reflect it perfectly. Carlos also suffered some painful mechanical issues robbing him a lot of points, not only Lando, at both starts of each half of the season

If you look at the results of both drivers, I can´t see any difference in first and second half. Actually Lando managed to beat Sainz twice in second half, for only once in first (I´m only looking at races wich both drivers finished)

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren#Resultados

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Andres125sx wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:48 pm
diffuser wrote: So we're, or at least I was, looking at a 2021 scenario that their was a large discrepancy in the performance between the two drivers in 2020. I think both drivers have showed enough to merit another year and in Norris's case even if he hadn't I would give another year..

So neither driver can sit on their laurels but Norris has more to prove... Norris was Sainz's equal for most of the first half of 2019 but Sainz Dominated in the 2nd half. So there is a trend there that Norris needs to correct/reverse.


I just threw the Alonso thing out there, I don't have any data to compare the drivers. McLaren do. I don't want Vettel that's is for sure. He has, In my opinion, imploded under pressure at Ferrari the last 2 years.
I don’t agree with you that Sainz “Dominated” the second half of the season... Undeniably, he outperformed Norris, but Norris wasn’t squashed by Sainz.

In Spa, Norris was comfortably finishing the race in 5th when he had mechanical issues... I would give this race to Norris

In Monza, Norris had a good race to finish in the points after starting from the back of the grid... I would tie them in performance, not fair for Carlos since a pitstop took him out of the race.

In Singapore, Carlos was unlucky and touched with Hulk, Norris managed to stay behind Albon even though, once again the pitstop was slower than the ones around him and got stuck behind GRO for a while... I would give this race to Norris

In Russia, Carlos outqualified Lando by 1 tenth... And they both managed good races from there... Carlos won Qualy and ended up ahead of Norris... I would give this one to Carlos

In Japan, Carlos also outqualified Lando by a tenth and a half... Lando’s race was over when he touched with Albon... Definitely Carlos race

In Mexico, both were having a great race P6/P7 and Lando got taken out of the race with a bad pitstop... Carlos couldn’t switch the Hards on... Not a great race for either, let’s call it a tie.

In the US, Lando was having the better weekend... A mistake in Q3 placed him behind Carlos for the race, but he drove a great race and finished ahead of Carlos... This one goes to Norris.

In Brazil, Carlos drove one of his best races... Yes, he had a little help from Lando letting him through... But this one is definitely Carlos.

In Abu Dhabi, Lando outqualified Carlos and finished ahead of him at the end of the race... Pretty close, but I would give it to Norris.

In my opinion, Norris got the upper hand in 4 races in the second half... Carlos got the upper hand in 3 and they had very similar performance (a tie) in 2 races... I don’t see Carlos domination in the second half... Did he outscored Norris? By a country mile, but the point difference doesn’t reflect what happened in the weekends.



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Actually I think it reflect it perfectly. Carlos also suffered some painful mechanical issues robbing him a lot of points, not only Lando, at both starts of each half of the season

If you look at the results of both drivers, I can´t see any difference in first and second half. Actually Lando managed to beat Sainz twice in second half, for only once in first (I´m only looking at races wich both drivers finished)

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren#Resultados
Both had their fair share of issues, that’s undeniable... Probably the biggest difference is that Carlos scored well when Norris had issues and not viceversa... For example Germany, where Norris retired and Carlos finished 5th... Or Spain, where Norris retirement helped Carlos achieved an 8th place that wasn’t on the cards until that point... Or Monaco, where Norris was effectively a road block for everyone so that Carlos could build a big enough gap to pit and not lose positions... In France, they were P6 and P7 with Norris playing the team game and not challenging Carlos until he had hydraulic issues with a few laps left... Even when both had their issues and bad luck, I believe the “unlucky” trophy goes to Norris.

I’m not bashing Carlos by any means, he had a great season and he is a great driver... But, he didn’t dominated Norris and they had very similar performances through the hole season... The fact that Carlos is an “experienced” driver compared to Norris, just makes Norris performance that more interesting...


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godlameroso
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Both drivers did well, Sainz was definitely worth getting, as he's a strong benchmark. His experience, speed, and race craft are good enough to get what's needed of the car. I'd rate him slightly higher than Button in his prime. That Norris is that close in his rookie year bodes well, if he continues the trend he's shown he'll be in a very good place. It's obvious that he's come a long way with his race craft since the start of the season. There's still room for improvement and to his credit he has time on his side as he's still very young. They say your brain isn't fully developed until you're in your mid to late 20's so there's a lot of potential to being in F1 at such an age.
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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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godlameroso wrote:Both drivers did well, Sainz was definitely worth getting, as he's a strong benchmark. His experience, speed, and race craft are good enough to get what's needed of the car. I'd rate him slightly higher than Button in his prime. That Norris is that close in his rookie year bodes well, if he continues the trend he's shown he'll be in a very good place. It's obvious that he's come a long way with his race craft since the start of the season. There's still room for improvement and to his credit he has time on his side as he's still very young. They say your brain isn't fully developed until you're in your mid to late 20's so there's a lot of potential to being in F1 at such an age.
They both have a great season, that’s for sure... Carlos has been considered as one of the top drivers this season by the media, the team managers and the drivers... That says a lot about him.


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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:54 pm
someone talked about Sainz as an old driver, but he´s 25 years old
:lol: :lol: :lol: Sainz old? wut?!!

Dude's a young gun with loads of talent,
just caught in a bit of a grey moment in F1 right now,
with no real material to shine, despite that, doing pretty fine job.

He's one of the drivers i'd like to see in a competitive car against the 'big boys'.

Daniel, Max, Lewis, Carlos, Esteban, LeClerc, Vettel. I'd love to se a dogfight between those boys
in decent material.

Then i'd like to see Albon, Gasly, Perez, Kvyat, Norris, Russell and Magnussen.

Kimi is the odd 'duck' in the bunch but he's proven himself just as much as Alonso has proven himself,
but Alonso ain't driving around no more.

The rest really can't bother me. Grosjean, Giovanazzi, Stroll are just useless garbage,
Bottas isn't bad at all but really nothing spectacular either. I'd miss him as much as the Hulk,
not at all. I'd love to see Kubica in a capable car though, but even then i must say, history is history.

I'd like to see Hamilton take on Schumacher's stats and perhaps even see him at the reds, but everything
comes to an end.

From all the current drivers i'd say LeClerc and Verstappen are the most exciting but so would Daniel in a good car.

Anyway, I wonder what Mclaren might do next season.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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proteus
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:54 pm
proteus wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:57 pm
Why would anyone with his right mind take a 40 year old driver anyway? Other teams tend to take them younger and younger, and Mclaren will screw them all over by taking theirs out of retirement homes instead. Take that for superior team managment.....
So driver talent is irrelevant, it´s age all that matters?

Alonso is 38 btw
.
.
.
.
And someone talked about Sainz as an old driver, but he´s 25 years old
Alonso will be 40 when a seat in Mclaren "can" be available. And yes, age is important since human body is not like fine wine, which would get better with age. He can have better experience, but not the reflexes and stamina.

Not to mention his other problems - about which i am not allowed to speak off, since some of his diehard fans would condemn me of being a hater.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

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Sorry, for some reason, I can’t view this on my device, what’s it regarding?
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.