2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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One and Only
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by One and Only » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:23 pm

mantikos wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:54 pm
mmred wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:27 pm
munudeges wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:25 pm

Yer. Nothing. They also faded very badly from a technical point-of-view last season.


That's not the benchmark. The benchmark is Mercedes, and they have people like James Allison and Geoff Willis directing their car's direction. You need the right leadership, and technically Ferrari just haven't been getting it right. With the budget Ferrari have they should be where Mercedes is at least all the time.
if you talk of budget mercedes should lap ferrari all the races, they basically have 3 superfamous technical leaders in every sector where ferrari has now just binotto and unknown guys

"basically have 3 superfamous technical leaders in every sector" - Who? former TDs that were let go from previous gigs? Wasn't there a joke at one point that Ross was assembling a team of rejected and fired TDs? They're famous because they're at Merc now, not because they were super famous before, they were all let go at some point. The TEAM matters more than a celebrity name.
If they were let go doesn't mean they are not experts. Aldo Costa for example was Domenicali's scapegoat. In Ferrari he had important roles in 6 WDC and 6 WCC titles. Same for Mark Ellis with RBR's 4 WDC and 4 WCC titles. Hardly a bad track record.
Admittedly Ferrari can only blame themselves for not being able to get better people at some positions.
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Raleigh
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by Raleigh » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:32 pm

mantikos wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:54 pm
mmred wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:27 pm


if you talk of budget mercedes should lap ferrari all the races, they basically have 3 superfamous technical leaders in every sector where ferrari has now just binotto and unknown guys

"basically have 3 superfamous technical leaders in every sector" - Who? former TDs that were let go from previous gigs? Wasn't there a joke at one point that Ross was assembling a team of rejected and fired TDs? They're famous because they're at Merc now, not because they were super famous before, they were all let go at some point. The TEAM matters more than a celebrity name.
And Ross himself was forced out by Ferrari after being the technical director behind the Schumacher era of Ferrari dominance.

Team name means less than the people behind it.

ringo
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by ringo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:23 am

They will try to poach Hamilton from Mercedes. The main way to weaken mercedes.
Ocon and Bottas will take over mercedes with Vettel retiring. :mrgreen:
Any how im not overreacting. Ferrari will be fine. Just setup and finding the right rhythm in the car for Vettel and allowing Charles freedom to drive how he wants and things should be fine.
For Sure!!

NoDivergence
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by NoDivergence » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:11 am

mmred wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:23 am
NoDivergence wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:28 am
I happen to be an aero engineer too. Want to see how well FSAE cars do without aero? All they do is under 90 kph.

funny cause most of fsae dont even have a diffuser or wings ( they are in pre 60 era of f1 )
or are walls

but it s a the usual useless false dichotomy to prove an unprovable point: who said without aero?
it s that the aero performance is less important compared to the other factors.
aero importance grows qith the square of the speed, so you can deduce how much importance is in the field

of course they try to squeeze every downforce they can in f1 but different speeds different quests
When was the last time you looked at FSAE? The top teams all run lots and lots of wings, diffusers, converging diverging floors, etc. The whole shebang. Aero performance is worth enough that no team wins without significant aero. Teams with lesser aero get crushed by teams like Stuttgart, Minash, Michigan, etc .

This car is one that makes around 220 lbf of downforce at 60 mph.
https://www.racecar-engineering.com/art ... ynamics/2/

These cars are making over 340-440 lbf at similar or lower speeds
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... s_getting/

That's a 14% increase in grip considering F1 minimum weights... That is significant

selvam_e2002
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by selvam_e2002 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:43 am

ringo wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:23 am
They will try to poach Hamilton from Mercedes. The main way to weaken mercedes.
Ocon and Bottas will take over mercedes with Vettel retiring. :mrgreen:
Any how im not overreacting. Ferrari will be fine. Just setup and finding the right rhythm in the car for Vettel and allowing Charles freedom to drive how he wants and things should be fine.
I don't think they can get Hamilton. Why he should join Ferrari from Mec. The team supporting him now and no pressure in Mec.

It it better to bring back Alonso from retirement and replace Vettel for 2020 for two years. Alonso can give good feed back on car development for 2021 rule change and can guide Lecrec. After 2021, Lecrec can team up with Ricciardo... He is a good team player and will suit Ferrari.

It is my opinion: The only person who can stop Hamilton is Alonso in Ferrari. It should happen in 2020.

selvam_e2002
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by selvam_e2002 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:46 am

and more over instead of fighting Hamilton Vs Vettel, It is very much interesting to see/watch Alonso Vs Hamilton. They have old history. F1 will get more viewer when fighting Alonso vs Hamilton. Alonso can handle pressure in Ferrari. I don't think Vettel/Lecrec has that capability.

jumpingfish
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by jumpingfish » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:14 am

selvam_e2002 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:43 am
ringo wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:23 am
They will try to poach Hamilton from Mercedes. The main way to weaken mercedes.
Ocon and Bottas will take over mercedes with Vettel retiring. :mrgreen:
Any how im not overreacting. Ferrari will be fine. Just setup and finding the right rhythm in the car for Vettel and allowing Charles freedom to drive how he wants and things should be fine.
I don't think they can get Hamilton. Why he should join Ferrari from Mec. The team supporting him now and no pressure in Mec.

It it better to bring back Alonso from retirement and replace Vettel for 2020 for two years. Alonso can give good feed back on car development for 2021 rule change and can guide Lecrec. After 2021, Lecrec can team up with Ricciardo... He is a good team player and will suit Ferrari.

It is my opinion: The only person who can stop Hamilton is Alonso in Ferrari. It should happen in 2020.
I don't think Alonso will join Ferrari in future, it's closed page because previous situations with him and his age. IMO they want to grow Leclerc as future champion and only need good №2 for that. At this moment Vettel can't beat Hamilton but I'm sure the first problems are car and weird strategies, not only Sebastian

NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by NathanOlder » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:39 am

Phil wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:06 am
I also think Binotto is doing a great job at managing the team so far, even if some may not like the team-orders, but at least they are clear and precise. If Ferrari are backing the right driver, who knows at this point, but I do know that if Leclerc doesn't want to be the 'team player' and pawn, he simply needs to mark his authority on Saturdays in qualifying and do well during the race. If he continues to outqualify Vettel (if he does), then he will get less in situations in which the team will ask him to move over. It's really that simple. Same applies to Vettel; To not rely on the team helping him out, he simply needs to qualify well and continue good pace during the race.
Funny thing about qualifying, over the 3 races so far, Leclerc is on average 0.025 faster than Vettel. It's just Vettel is ahead 2.1 in Qualy. So its not like he's not doing well on Saturdays, he is so far faster than Vettel. As for Binotto, I dont see how anyone can say he is doing a good job managing the team so far, when they have started worse than the previous 2 years , and already seem on the verge of a civil war between the drivers. I'd say he is doing an Okay job at best.
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jumpingfish
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by jumpingfish » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:31 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:39 am
Phil wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:06 am
I also think Binotto is doing a great job at managing the team so far, even if some may not like the team-orders, but at least they are clear and precise. If Ferrari are backing the right driver, who knows at this point, but I do know that if Leclerc doesn't want to be the 'team player' and pawn, he simply needs to mark his authority on Saturdays in qualifying and do well during the race. If he continues to outqualify Vettel (if he does), then he will get less in situations in which the team will ask him to move over. It's really that simple. Same applies to Vettel; To not rely on the team helping him out, he simply needs to qualify well and continue good pace during the race.
Funny thing about qualifying, over the 3 races so far, Leclerc is on average 0.025 faster than Vettel. It's just Vettel is ahead 2.1 in Qualy. So its not like he's not doing well on Saturdays, he is so far faster than Vettel. As for Binotto, I dont see how anyone can say he is doing a good job managing the team so far, when they have started worse than the previous 2 years , and already seem on the verge of a civil war between the drivers. I'd say he is doing an Okay job at best.
a bit incorrect to compare Arrivabene and Binotto, if Maurizio had Vettel №1 and unambitious Kimi, now situation is another - Leclerc shows he doesn't want to be a butler. Also the lack of pace with unreliable engine not the same with lucky strategy in Australia-2018 and Bahrein-2018 with technical upgrades

NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by NathanOlder » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:44 pm

jumpingfish wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:31 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:39 am
Phil wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:06 am
I also think Binotto is doing a great job at managing the team so far, even if some may not like the team-orders, but at least they are clear and precise. If Ferrari are backing the right driver, who knows at this point, but I do know that if Leclerc doesn't want to be the 'team player' and pawn, he simply needs to mark his authority on Saturdays in qualifying and do well during the race. If he continues to outqualify Vettel (if he does), then he will get less in situations in which the team will ask him to move over. It's really that simple. Same applies to Vettel; To not rely on the team helping him out, he simply needs to qualify well and continue good pace during the race.
Funny thing about qualifying, over the 3 races so far, Leclerc is on average 0.025 faster than Vettel. It's just Vettel is ahead 2.1 in Qualy. So its not like he's not doing well on Saturdays, he is so far faster than Vettel. As for Binotto, I dont see how anyone can say he is doing a good job managing the team so far, when they have started worse than the previous 2 years , and already seem on the verge of a civil war between the drivers. I'd say he is doing an Okay job at best.
a bit incorrect to compare Arrivabene and Binotto, if Maurizio had Vettel №1 and unambitious Kimi, now situation is another - Leclerc shows he doesn't want to be a butler. Also the lack of pace with unreliable engine not the same with lucky strategy in Australia-2018 and Bahrein-2018 with technical upgrades
But my point was more about how anyone can say Binotto has done a good job managing the team so far..... What has he done so well ?
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Phil
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Phil » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:11 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:39 am
Funny thing about qualifying, over the 3 races so far, Leclerc is on average 0.025 faster than Vettel.
That’s a really skewed way of selective math to make a point. Leclerc is fast, no doubt, and over the season, i wouldnt be surprised if he ends up beating Vettel more often than not, but right now, Vettel has outqualified Leclerc so far, no matter how close or not.

Good management to me means having control over the situation and being transparent. You may dislike how the team decided to handle their drivers in China and perhaps in hindsight might have been the wrong decision, but at the moment, it did look like that the driver who was faster across the weekend (Vettel) was also the faster driver during the race and being held up by his team mate. The only thing i’d criticize them for, was reacting too late, because when they did order the swap, Vettels tires were already quite worn to mak it count.

Apart from that though, the orders so far have been quite logical and not very surprising. As far as team management goes, cant fault Binotto for Vettels mistake in China and Leclercs reliability. Had that not been the case, Ferrari would have a win to their name, Hamilton one less and as a result, they’d be substantially ahead of Verstappen in the driver standings and closer to Mercedes. What will you criticize him for?
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by NathanOlder » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:49 pm

I wouldn't criticise him at this stage, I was just saying he hasn't done a good job as you put it. Not saying he's done a bad job, I'd say 5 out 10. Average, mediocre.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:24 pm

Mattchu wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:45 pm
maybe Ferrari are missing the input of Kimi when it comes to the front end...
Why? Can't Vettel or Leclerc say "it's understeering and we need more front end grip"?

This idea that the driver engineers the car to be better is quite amusing really... :lol:
Last edited by Just_a_fan on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dans79
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by dans79 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:29 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:24 pm
Why? Can't Vettel or Leclerc say "it's understanding and we need more front end grip"?

This idea that the driver engineers the car to be better is quite amusing really... :lol:
Come on now, surely you are aware that their are drastic differences between the drivers when it comes to developing the car or addressing issues with it. Some will drive around an issue, while others will work heavily with the team to fix it, other fall somewhere in the middle.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:59 pm

dans79 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:29 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:24 pm
Why? Can't Vettel or Leclerc say "it's understanding and we need more front end grip"?

This idea that the driver engineers the car to be better is quite amusing really... :lol:
Come on now, surely you are aware that their are drastic differences between the drivers when it comes to developing the car or addressing issues with it. Some will drive around an issue, while others will work heavily with the team to fix it, other fall somewhere in the middle.
The driver doesn't engineer the car. He says "we've got a lot of understeer in turns three and four." The engineers work out what to change and by how much. The mechanics make the changes.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"