2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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falonso81
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by falonso81 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:40 pm

LM10 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:42 pm
Ferrari will bring a new front wing to France which will generate more downforce, without changing the outwash philosophy.
Well, if they went the Merc way with the front wing they would have to change the whole aero package. They have to stick with their outwash concept and try to generate as much downforce as they can through refinements. I think the championship is gone by now but lets hope they can at least fight for wins later on.

damager21
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by damager21 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:07 pm

falonso81 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:40 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:42 pm
Ferrari will bring a new front wing to France which will generate more downforce, without changing the outwash philosophy.
Well, if they went the Merc way with the front wing they would have to change the whole aero package. They have to stick with their outwash concept and try to generate as much downforce as they can through refinements. I think the championship is gone by now but lets hope they can at least fight for wins later on.
If Ferrari can find a quick solve to improve their pace & tyre problems, there is still a chance. Its a long season so too early to call it off already. They have the pace, just not able to unlock it because of tyre problems

ringo
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by ringo » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:47 am

The championship is not over. What mercedes achieved in 6 races can be acheived in 12 by Ferrari.
They have the engine, they just need to get the tyres and the downforce and be consistent. Its a tough ask but it's possible. They don't need much to be the fastest car, as Bahrain has shown.
For Sure!!

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Jolle » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:42 am

ringo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:47 am
The championship is not over. What mercedes achieved in 6 races can be acheived in 12 by Ferrari.
They have the engine, they just need to get the tyres and the downforce and be consistent. Its a tough ask but it's possible. They don't need much to be the fastest car, as Bahrain has shown.
There is still a lot of work to be done:
- strategy must improve. The team has no strong vision, execution or leadership on this department.
- the drivers must stop crashing.
- they are at least half a lifetime of a ICE behind due to the early introduction of spec 2.

Scorpaguy
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Scorpaguy » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:58 am

Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:42 am
ringo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:47 am
The championship is not over. What mercedes achieved in 6 races can be acheived in 12 by Ferrari.
They have the engine, they just need to get the tyres and the downforce and be consistent. Its a tough ask but it's possible. They don't need much to be the fastest car, as Bahrain has shown.
There is still a lot of work to be done:
- strategy must improve. The team has no strong vision, execution or leadership on this department.
- the drivers must stop crashing.
- they are at least half a lifetime of a ICE behind due to the early introduction of spec 2.
I still believe Big Red's PU advantage is largely due to its efficient/low DF design. Their advantage is at the end of long straights...not much grunt coming out of corners (albeit lack of mechanical grip is no help either). Ferrari is fast, but so is Merc and they are carrying more corner speed. Still for Canada....

I HOPE Bino finally solves a few of his equations, but I FEAR Merc's engineering prowess wins the day. Since I suspect RB's Honda will be short on lungs, we should beat both of them.

falonso81
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by falonso81 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:58 pm

ringo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:47 am
The championship is not over. What mercedes achieved in 6 races can be acheived in 12 by Ferrari.
They have the engine, they just need to get the tyres and the downforce and be consistent. Its a tough ask but it's possible. They don't need much to be the fastest car, as Bahrain has shown.
Sure there is a long way to go until the end of the year. The thing is that the car is not even the main problem at Ferrari right now. Team management is the main issue and needs to be resolved asap.

marvin78
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by marvin78 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:00 pm

I always wonder why so many persons know so much about internas at certains teams. How do you get these infos (like "management is the main issue")? It can't be from the little things we see or read on GP weekends or in between. That's simply not possible. So how do you know these things?

Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Jolle » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:22 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:00 pm
I always wonder why so many persons know so much about internas at certains teams. How do you get these infos (like "management is the main issue")? It can't be from the little things we see or read on GP weekends or in between. That's simply not possible. So how do you know these things?
We don’t know, but the things visible on track (not taking control of a situation) and the relative fast turnover of team managers are quite good indicators that management isn’t up to spec.

marvin78
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by marvin78 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:49 pm

Ah. Indicators. So then are assumptions statet as facts. I like that very much....

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Jolle » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:07 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:49 pm
Ah. Indicators. So then are assumptions statet as facts. I like that very much....
As clear that flames from the back of the car means that something is wrong.

A key role of management is taking control and making decisions. What we've seen so far this season they are not doing either. Therefor, they have a problem there.

If you look deeper, you could even wander if there is friction between Philip Morris and Ferrari. You could see that when Dominicale's replacement failed (you know, the guy with the shades), Philip Morris brought in Arivebennde (he was their guy) and when he didn't turn the team around enough, Exor took back control promoting Binotto, who is a brilliant engineer but so far hasn't fell trough being dominant at the top. Plus the death of the chairman also left a hole, with Elkann has a lot on his plate.

marvin78
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by marvin78 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:15 pm

Nothing but biased assumptions taken from some snapshots. That's what I am trying to say. I don't say, that there are no problems but I don't think that we all know nearly 10% of all facts to draw these conclusions. So I don't do that.

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:28 pm

Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:07 pm
marvin78 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:49 pm
Ah. Indicators. So then are assumptions statet as facts. I like that very much....
As clear that flames from the back of the car means that something is wrong.

A key role of management is taking control and making decisions. What we've seen so far this season they are not doing either. Therefor, they have a problem there.

If you look deeper, you could even wander if there is friction between Philip Morris and Ferrari. You could see that when Dominicale's replacement failed (you know, the guy with the shades), Philip Morris brought in Arivebennde (he was their guy) and when he didn't turn the team around enough, Exor took back control promoting Binotto, who is a brilliant engineer but so far hasn't fell trough being dominant at the top. Plus the death of the chairman also left a hole, with Elkann has a lot on his plate.
Binotto is an engine guy first and foremost, so I'm guessing it was his push to put more emphasis on the engine and packaging than on the aero side. They figured they had a good aero advantage based on 2017 and 2018, but didn't count on Mercedes improving as they did.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

GoranF1
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by GoranF1 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:19 pm

ringo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:47 am
The championship is not over. What mercedes achieved in 6 races can be acheived in 12 by Ferrari.
:D
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

izzy
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by izzy » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:10 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:28 pm
Binotto is an engine guy first and foremost, so I'm guessing it was his push to put more emphasis on the engine and packaging than on the aero side. They figured they had a good aero advantage based on 2017 and 2018, but didn't count on Mercedes improving as they did.
Mattia was in charge of the 2017 and 2018 car too. But look at Charles and Oz and Bahrain and Monaco too - the car is fast, just not perfect. How different things could have looked if things hadn't gone wrong in the races! Or China where they were holding each other up, Oz where Seb put Charles off compared with Baku where Charles crashed while Lewis gave Valtteri room

Mattia's going along with the car story i think, to some extent, to protect the race team. Not 100% of it but if that car had been raced by Mercedes and vice versa it'd be close

vogonvader
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by vogonvader » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:43 am

godlameroso wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:28 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:07 pm
marvin78 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:49 pm
Ah. Indicators. So then are assumptions statet as facts. I like that very much....
As clear that flames from the back of the car means that something is wrong.

A key role of management is taking control and making decisions. What we've seen so far this season they are not doing either. Therefor, they have a problem there.

If you look deeper, you could even wander if there is friction between Philip Morris and Ferrari. You could see that when Dominicale's replacement failed (you know, the guy with the shades), Philip Morris brought in Arivebennde (he was their guy) and when he didn't turn the team around enough, Exor took back control promoting Binotto, who is a brilliant engineer but so far hasn't fell trough being dominant at the top. Plus the death of the chairman also left a hole, with Elkann has a lot on his plate.
Binotto is an engine guy first and foremost, so I'm guessing it was his push to put more emphasis on the engine and packaging than on the aero side. They figured they had a good aero advantage based on 2017 and 2018, but didn't count on Mercedes improving as they did.
First and foremost there's no telling and no source if Ferrari really did put more emphasis on engine department more than the aero departmant, at least not that I know of so I'd be glad if you shared how do you guess that?

On top of that I think you're criminally underestimating the capabilities of Binotto and all the staff at Ferrari. They didn't have a good aero advantage in 2018, especially in the closing parts of the 2018 and the team already knew about it. Tell us how do they now think that they had a good aero advantage coming into 2019? That's just ridiculous to think would be possible, I'm pretty sure Ferrari engineers do know their own job unlike me and most people on this forum and I think they can realize they had to improve the aero bits because they weren't good at aero in 2018 to begin with.

These guys are engineers at Ferrari, they've been developing the the fastest cars on earth for years now and you do guess that they just counted on Mercedes not improving much in the off-season? So how do you think they came to the decision of that? Binotto had a meeting with the senior staff and he just told everyone like "...let's just put more emphasis on the engine side because I think we can count on Mercedes not improving as much as we do..." and all the executives thought, yeah that makes perfect sense let's just put all our eggs in one basket!