[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Hoffman900
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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More wind tunnel time isn’t a gimme though.

You could give Williams all the wind tunnel time in the world and they still wouldn’t be as fast as Mercedes. You still need the engineering talent to do something with it, and I don’t think they’ve made any hires that give any indication that will change.

If the same people are involved in this car are involved for next year and 2022, why should they expect different?

LM10
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:15 pm
More wind tunnel time isn’t a gimme though.

You could give Williams all the wind tunnel time in the world and they still wouldn’t be as fast as Mercedes. You still need the engineering talent to do something with it, and I don’t think they’ve made any hires that give any indication that will change.

If the same people are involved in this car are involved for next year and 2022, why should they expect different?
Because of better team dynamics, learning from mistakes and continuity maybe? In which way has helped Ferrari firing people regularly in the past? I don’t think that Ferrari staff consists of untalented fools.

No one expects Williams to be as fast as Mercedes, but more wind tunnel and simulation time for weaker teams should be one of a few factors closing the gap to the top teams. That is the whole point of the regulation changes.
Ferrari as a top team found themselves in a position of a weak team in the standings. This should give them more of a lift relative to other top teams. If it actually will, we will see in the future, but I don’t see the point in being pessimistic all the time.

Hoffman900
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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You still need engineers to create the test procedures, be creative enough to design the parts, and make it work. That takes human talent.

With the correlation issues Ferrari has had with the wind tunnel, more tunnel time doesn’t necessarily mean it will be quality time. Merc seems to have a better grasp on correlation between the wind tunnel, cfd, and in real life ... they could get more out of less wind tunnel time than teams that have those issues do with more time.

I’ve been around racing a bit, and regardless of rule changes that I’ve seen to balance the field, the same teams and drivers are at the front.

LM10
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:07 pm
You still need engineers to create the test procedures, be creative enough to design the parts, and make it work. That takes human talent.

With the correlation issues Ferrari has had with the wind tunnel, more tunnel time doesn’t necessarily mean it will be quality time. Merc seems to have a better grasp on correlation between the wind tunnel, cfd, and in real life ... they could get more out of less wind tunnel time than teams that have those issues do with more time.

I’ve been around racing a bit, and regardless of rule changes that I’ve seen to balance the field, the same teams and drivers are at the front.
So Mercedes will dominate, you mean like... forever?!

Hoffman900
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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No. Usually it’s key talent leaving for whatever reason 1) retirement 2) new opportunities. Or the management structure changes... ie: new principal / ceo comes in and decides to reorg in his model, and screws the entire thing up. This happens in business all the time.

There is risk in that if Toto steps back, his successor could mess up a good thing. This causes people to leave. Not unlike Ferrari after Todt.

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:06 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:29 pm
Sevach wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:50 am
Well, Ferrari now all but locked in 6th in the constructors, should have a nice wind tunnel bonus over the big teams.
Looking at their car, they are going to need a bit more then that...
More wind tunnel time will mean more time for 2022 car as well.
If the 2022 car is done by the same team as this square nosed ‘15 style car, I wouldn’t hope for much.

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raymondu999
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:01 pm
Because of better team dynamics, learning from mistakes and continuity maybe? In which way has helped Ferrari firing people regularly in the past? I don’t think that Ferrari staff consists of untalented fools.
Honestly Ferrari usually has a great talent pool. Aldo Costa, James Allison, have all recently produced dominant machinery lol. But they obviously have very poor talent management. Case in point look at how they're shifting Simone Resta around. It's not the old "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS" routine but it's not far off, in a way. Binotto, by trade an engineer, shifted from a technical role (where he did well, leading designs on winning cars) to a managerial role. Something just isn't clicking with how they extract results from their talent.

Ferrari is the anti-thesis of "the sum of the parts is greater than the whole"
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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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e30ernest wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:08 pm
I have high hopes for Leclerc. Even at F2, the few races I got to watch had me impressed with Leclerc. Since then, I always saw him as someone at the level of Max or Lewis when they came into F1. He has the raw talent/speed. He just has to add experience and convert that into wins/championships.

I distinctly remember last year that people were criticizing Ferrari for letting go of Kimi in favor of Charles. People were saying he was too green and that Vettel will wipe the floor with him. Didn't turn out that way now. :D
I agree. I will go one step further. He is ready now. It's alot harder to drive a 2020 Ferrari than a 2020 Merc or RBR. The car lacks pace, so you have to take more risks to get ahead. You always have to push closer to the limit than you want to.

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Juzh
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:42 am
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:02 am
Leclerc, need to really talk to himself. Having full knowledge that the car is nowhere competitive in races, going for such audacious moves is really stupid. He wasn't going to beat a Merc or RedBull or RP on pace, even if he would have gotten ahead in that sequence. They would have anyway overtaken him.

Besides, there were four cars going into that corner while properly slowing down, except for Leclerc, who was inside. Driver on the inside can't take so much speed and he has seen that for himself in Austria. He really need to accept the limitations of the car for now and drive smart. He jas done so well on so many occasions, but there are moments when he gets ahead of himself.

He almost had the same moment last week where Seb had to bail out and blasted on radio. Season can't get over sooner for him.
I think we can blame the lack of fp2 running for Leclerc to the accident. He didnt know the race pace of the car but could've been surprised by quali pace and thought of jumping the gun. I'm personally fine with it. Remember, even Verstappen crashed a lot in his early years. These are championship contending drivers. Giving a season away just like that, just like how Seb Vettel is doing, is just not in their mindset.
What championship lol? The year is lost but that doesn't mean you can just send it left and right and destroy other peoples' races constantly.

ryaan2904
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:41 am
ryaan2904 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:42 am
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:02 am
Leclerc, need to really talk to himself. Having full knowledge that the car is nowhere competitive in races, going for such audacious moves is really stupid. He wasn't going to beat a Merc or RedBull or RP on pace, even if he would have gotten ahead in that sequence. They would have anyway overtaken him.

Besides, there were four cars going into that corner while properly slowing down, except for Leclerc, who was inside. Driver on the inside can't take so much speed and he has seen that for himself in Austria. He really need to accept the limitations of the car for now and drive smart. He jas done so well on so many occasions, but there are moments when he gets ahead of himself.

He almost had the same moment last week where Seb had to bail out and blasted on radio. Season can't get over sooner for him.
I think we can blame the lack of fp2 running for Leclerc to the accident. He didnt know the race pace of the car but could've been surprised by quali pace and thought of jumping the gun. I'm personally fine with it. Remember, even Verstappen crashed a lot in his early years. These are championship contending drivers. Giving a season away just like that, just like how Seb Vettel is doing, is just not in their mindset.
What championship lol? The year is lost but that doesn't mean you can just send it left and right and destroy other peoples' races constantly.
So? Mistakes happen :lol: Got a penalty for it too (which i felt was unfair cuz perez won the race anywayz), but its fine. Saw a gap and took it. I doubt anyone would have anticipated Perez literally moving between two extremes of the track anyways

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El Scorchio
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Leclerc has been superb this year. Really looking forward to seeing his career develop.

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Big Tea
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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:24 pm
Leclerc has been superb this year. Really looking forward to seeing his career develop.
I agree he has been very good, but as hinted to above, what will he be like when points and places matter, and with a feisty team mate?

I suspect he will be fine, but he has shown flashes of hot head
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

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El Scorchio
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Big Tea wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:46 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:24 pm
Leclerc has been superb this year. Really looking forward to seeing his career develop.
I agree he has been very good, but as hinted to above, what will he be like when points and places matter, and with a feisty team mate?

I suspect he will be fine, but he has shown flashes of hot head
True, but seen as the slightly older and much more experienced Verstappen is still getting a free pass from many for every rush of blood to the head he still has, its only fair to afford Charles the same luxury when he has them. I am impressed with how he at least will admit when he's in the wrong sometimes. Going to apologise to Perez after the race was a nice touch.

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Juzh
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:14 pm
Juzh wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:41 am
ryaan2904 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:42 am

I think we can blame the lack of fp2 running for Leclerc to the accident. He didnt know the race pace of the car but could've been surprised by quali pace and thought of jumping the gun. I'm personally fine with it. Remember, even Verstappen crashed a lot in his early years. These are championship contending drivers. Giving a season away just like that, just like how Seb Vettel is doing, is just not in their mindset.
What championship lol? The year is lost but that doesn't mean you can just send it left and right and destroy other peoples' races constantly.
So? Mistakes happen :lol: Got a penalty for it too (which i felt was unfair cuz perez won the race anywayz), but its fine. Saw a gap and took it. I doubt anyone would have anticipated Perez literally moving between two extremes of the track anyways
There's a corner going right at that point on the track you know? Perez even left some room on the inside in case someone was going to try and squeeze there, but you can't account for a car completely out of control with locked wheels doing a yolo all or nothing move.

Those mistake that just so "happen" are happening too often now. Leclerc wrecked verstappen in japan last year, then wrecked both ferrari in austria this year, then would've wrecked them again had seb not jumped out of the way, and has now wrecked verstappen's race again (and his own). Perez got saved by safety cars and other shenaningans happening on track, if not for those things he'd be barely in the points.

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El Scorchio
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:15 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:14 pm
Juzh wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:41 am

What championship lol? The year is lost but that doesn't mean you can just send it left and right and destroy other peoples' races constantly.
So? Mistakes happen :lol: Got a penalty for it too (which i felt was unfair cuz perez won the race anywayz), but its fine. Saw a gap and took it. I doubt anyone would have anticipated Perez literally moving between two extremes of the track anyways
There's a corner going right at that point on the track you know? Perez even left some room on the inside in case someone was going to try and squeeze there, but you can't account for a car completely out of control with locked wheels doing a yolo all or nothing move.

Those mistake that just so "happen" are happening too often now. Leclerc wrecked verstappen in japan last year, then wrecked both ferrari in austria this year, then would've wrecked them again had seb not jumped out of the way, and has now wrecked verstappen's race again (and his own). Perez got saved by safety cars and other shenaningans happening on track, if not for those things he'd be barely in the points.
He's hardly the only young driver on the grid who has been involved in his fair share of shunts in the last few seasons. And actually at least he owned up to it afterwards.