[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[DChemTech]

FIA reaches agreement with Ferrari after power unit investigation

This is actually quite a big news story that has been buried by being released late in the day on a Friday. Long story short: Ferrari was obviously oil burning and/or leaking fuel through the intercooler, or they somehow used more fuel than is allowed by bypassing the fuel flow sensor.

The FIA has figured this out and has made Ferrari stop whatever they were doing. Ferrari seems to have avoided a penalty by working with the FIA so that others can't "cheat" in the same ways.

The upshot is that Ferrari is clearly down on power relative to last year, barring legal advancements that may have been made in the off-season. Makes sense that they are are slow in a straight line, especially given drag-inducing aero additions that weren't on the car last year.

That is loads of nonsense. FIA simply said, they have "reached a settlement with the team" doesn't mean "Ferrari was cheating and we caught them"! You only read it that way because YOU WANT TO. FIA has often managed to leave loop holes in their regulations and many teams over the decades, have exploited it. It doesn't make that exploitation ILLEGAL. Some people, including Adrian Newey are crying that Mercedes' DAS system is Illegal. Does it make it Illegal or cheating? Whatever FIA understands about the system, is like Michael Masi said, they can't reveal the details to anyone outside of the parties involved. If you want to go ahead and believe it is CHEATING and ILLEGAL, you are free to do so, but it won't become universal truth for everyone.

And once again, you do not settle and cover up with all reputation damages that come from that if there is nothing illegal, or at least very, very shady. They only do this if the damage from opening up is expected to be larger than the damage from covering up. If all was legal, they'd come out with that. If it was some creative interpretation of the rules, they'd probably explain what was the case too. This is not a case of "innocent until proven guilty" - they settled and with that admit guilt to something, we just don't know what. You can pretend that isn't the case, but that is only because YOU WANT TO. Now, we can speculate a lot about what the exact issue is, but we won't know that until someone speaks out. Which will happen, sooner or later. I'm anyway putting my bet on that it was either outright illegal, or perhaps in accordance with the letter of the regulations but so obviously against the spirit of it, that they chose for reputation damage from coverup over damage from admittance. Time will tell.

[PlatinumZealot]

Settlement means out of court. As in OK you haven't convicted us as cheaters yet and you probably never will. And as far as we know you have nor proof and as we are concerned we are not cheating. But to get you off our arses we will settle on some sort of "payment".

[GPR-A]

This is actually quite a big news story that has been buried by being released late in the day on a Friday. Long story short: Ferrari was obviously oil burning and/or leaking fuel through the intercooler, or they somehow used more fuel than is allowed by bypassing the fuel flow sensor.

The FIA has figured this out and has made Ferrari stop whatever they were doing. Ferrari seems to have avoided a penalty by working with the FIA so that others can't "cheat" in the same ways.

The upshot is that Ferrari is clearly down on power relative to last year, barring legal advancements that may have been made in the off-season. Makes sense that they are are slow in a straight line, especially given drag-inducing aero additions that weren't on the car last year.

That is loads of nonsense. FIA simply said, they have "reached a settlement with the team" doesn't mean "Ferrari was cheating and we caught them"! You only read it that way because YOU WANT TO. FIA has often managed to leave loop holes in their regulations and many teams over the decades, have exploited it. It doesn't make that exploitation ILLEGAL. Some people, including Adrian Newey are crying that Mercedes' DAS system is Illegal. Does it make it Illegal or cheating? Whatever FIA understands about the system, is like Michael Masi said, they can't reveal the details to anyone outside of the parties involved. If you want to go ahead and believe it is CHEATING and ILLEGAL, you are free to do so, but it won't become universal truth for everyone.

And once again, you do not settle and cover up with all reputation damages that come from that if there is nothing illegal, or at least very, very shady. They only do this if the damage from opening up is expected to be larger than the damage from covering up. If all was legal, they'd come out with that. If it was some creative interpretation of the rules, they'd probably explain what was the case too. This is not a case of "innocent until proven guilty" - they settled and with that admit guilt to something, we just don't know what. You can pretend that isn't the case, but that is only because YOU WANT TO. Now, we can speculate a lot about what the exact issue is, but we won't know that until someone speaks out. Which will happen, sooner or later. I'm anyway putting my bet on that it was either outright illegal, or perhaps in accordance with the letter of the regulations but so obviously against the spirit of it, that they chose for reputation damage from coverup over damage from admittance. Time will tell.

Reputation damage, cover up, shady? Is that what the FIA statement says? Because you read it that way, doesn't translate that into truth. There is nothing that has been proven and there is nothing to discuss there.

Ferrari: the FIA ​​agreement on engines? A victory for Binotto

For the first time, Ferrari has adopted the same tactic on the engine that James Allison played for the approval of the DAS. The Cavallino technicians wrote a series of letters to Nicholas Tombazis on the use of the power unit and the intercooler in which all the doubts concerning the interpretations of the gray areas of the regulation were clarified and obtaining all authorizations to start a season without the continuous ballet of controversy that characterized the last world championship.
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.
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If things go as they hope in Maranello, it will not be a year of transition at all with the Scuderia technicians voted on the 2021 project. Quite the opposite. And the nervousness of Toto Wolff and Christian Horner, when they understood what the real value of the FIA-Ferrari agreement was, is more than ever justified. But the Federation, which never took a clear position on the engine issue last year, has already put a dam on the controversy.

This time it's up to Helmut Marko or Max Verstappen to prove if there's anything that's not legal about the Red.

[Fer.Fan]

That is loads of nonsense. FIA simply said, they have "reached a settlement with the team" doesn't mean "Ferrari was cheating and we caught them"! You only read it that way because YOU WANT TO. FIA has often managed to leave loop holes in their regulations and many teams over the decades, have exploited it. It doesn't make that exploitation ILLEGAL. Some people, including Adrian Newey are crying that Mercedes' DAS system is Illegal. Does it make it Illegal or cheating? Whatever FIA understands about the system, is like Michael Masi said, they can't reveal the details to anyone outside of the parties involved. If you want to go ahead and believe it is CHEATING and ILLEGAL, you are free to do so, but it won't become universal truth for everyone.

And once again, you do not settle and cover up with all reputation damages that come from that if there is nothing illegal, or at least very, very shady. They only do this if the damage from opening up is expected to be larger than the damage from covering up. If all was legal, they'd come out with that. If it was some creative interpretation of the rules, they'd probably explain what was the case too. This is not a case of "innocent until proven guilty" - they settled and with that admit guilt to something, we just don't know what. You can pretend that isn't the case, but that is only because YOU WANT TO. Now, we can speculate a lot about what the exact issue is, but we won't know that until someone speaks out. Which will happen, sooner or later. I'm anyway putting my bet on that it was either outright illegal, or perhaps in accordance with the letter of the regulations but so obviously against the spirit of it, that they chose for reputation damage from coverup over damage from admittance. Time will tell.

Reputation damage, cover up, shady? Is that what the FIA statement says? Because you read it that way, doesn't translate that into truth. There is nothing that has been proven and there is nothing to discuss there.

Ferrari: the FIA ​​agreement on engines? A victory for Binotto

Translate:

Let's find out what emerges from the press release issued yesterday by the FIA ​​on the surprise agreement signed with Ferrari. It is not so much the sponge blow on the past as the change of role that concerns the present and the future of the Scuderia in the relationship with the legislator. Mercedes and Red Bull did not like it. Not at all ...
The statement issued by the FIA ​​late yesterday afternoon had the effect of a bomb. The team leaders had already left the Barcelona paddock when the news spread. The FIA ​​has declared the "war" on the Ferrari engine closed, which caused many controversies especially at the end of last year.

A very confidential agreement, the contents of which will remain secret outside the parties, was signed after the International Federation sanctioned the closure of the investigation into the Cavallino's power unit. The evil ones claim that the sponge stroke served to cover a controversial and controversial phase of last year.

We wanted to draw a line on the past to build a new relationship from scratch, based on collaboration between the parties.

"The FIA ​​and Scuderia Ferrari have agreed on a series of technical commitments - it was written in the press release - which will improve the monitoring of all the power units in the next championships, as well as supporting the Federation in other regulatory aspects in Formula 1 and its activities of research on the reduction of carbon emissions and the introduction of sustainable fuels ".

And those who think badly immediately hinted that it happened as when a government asks for help from a hacker to prevent his computer systems from being violated.

We do not share this vision, because the Scuderia will be in the front row in the study of the F1 engine of 2025 which could become the laboratory for the Automotive in the transition phase that the world of auto traction will have to endure while waiting for an electrical network capable to satisfy green mobility with zero emissions.

There is also the idea of ​​reviving the diesel, coming out of the demonization that was made by the case that had hit the VW. The F1 could look to a power unit with a higher prevalence of the hybrid and it is not said that alternative fuels can be studied to help reduce emissions.

But the FIA-Ferrari agreement that made Mercedes and Red Bull and more, open up an important window also on the present. Mattia Binotto did not hesitate to "postpone" the performance of the SF1000 ("I would give a rating of less than 6") to lash the team right now that together with Louis Camilleri has won a political game that will have a great weight on the 2020 season.

For the first time Ferrari has adopted the same tactic on the engine that James Allison played for the approval of the DAS. The Cavallino technicians wrote a series of letters to Nicholas Tombazis on the use of the power unit and the intercooler in which all the doubts regarding the interpretations of the gray areas of the regulation were clarified and obtaining all the authorizations to start a season without the continuous ballet of controversy that characterized the last world championship.

It is not the first point scored by the Camilleri-Binotto couple, given that last year the Cavallino team had reached an economic agreement with FOM for the renewal of the Agreement of Concordia 2021-25, securing 38% of the prizes fixed. Found the square with Liberty, it was necessary to do it also with the FIA.

The Scuderia, therefore, intends to confirm motor supremacy despite the Federation having intensified the checks with the introduction of a second flow meter to check the instantaneous consumption of petrol in real time.

And we would not be surprised at all if the power unit that was mounted on the SF1000 in the Barcelona tests was only an "embryonic" form of the 065 that maybe we will see later.

Of course we cannot expect "... a second of engine" as Toto Wolff said provocatively, after the Brackley technicians have pointed out to him with the GPS surveys the low maximum speeds of the Red, but the Cavallino fans can hope for a noticeable reduction in the gap of the SF1000 from the silver arrow.

Binotto knows he has an ace to play and has seen how Mercedes is struggling to hold the game in the delicate field of the power unit (5 engines broken in its test sessions), so it pushes Maranello technicians to evolve quickly the Red.

The SF1000 was not born badly because it is already better than the SF90, but perhaps David Sanchez, head of the aerodynamics, had exaggerated last year in search of speed at the speed trap, while now he has focused too much on cornering, finding himself with a exaggerated resistance to advance which creates a sort of "wall" on the straight.

The increased engine power will partially reduce the negative effects, but Ferrari has immediately launched the project of an SF1000 B which could debut in the first European race with a more aggressive front, while maintaining the base of the current body.

If things go as they hope in Maranello, it will not be a year of transition at all with the Scuderia technicians voted on the 2021 project. Quite the opposite. And the nervousness of Toto Wolff and Christian Horner, when they understood what the real value of the FIA-Ferrari agreement was, is more than ever justified. But the Federation, which never took a clear position on the engine issue last year, has already put a dam on the controversy.

This time it's up to Helmut Marko or Max Verstappen to prove if there's anything that's not legal about the Red.

And now that the shopping list has changed, it won't be easy to know all the ingredients of the new recipe!

[JPBD1990]

Reading the above, can someone clarify the ‘win’ for Binotto/Ferrari? Is it that they’ll be heavily involved in the 2025 engine regs? Or is it implying that they get to continue doing whatever it was with the engine? I didn’t get a clear ‘win’ from reading that...

[JonoNic]

Reading the above, can someone clarify the ‘win’ for Binotto/Ferrari? Is it that they’ll be heavily involved in the 2025 engine regs? Or is it implying that they get to continue doing whatever it was with the engine? I didn’t get a clear ‘win’ from reading that...

Could be that Ferrari could legally work on their previous PU advantage with the FIA now to find another similar but legal solution. Asuming the FIA didn't fully understand what Ferrari was doing. This without the other manufacturers being non the wiser and this all before next year's cost cap. If that's the case then cost cap could provide them with an era, but we are talking about Ferrari here.

[MtthsMlw]

Race sims for Vettel and Leclerc.
Notice only a small difference in S1 so engine mode was similar overall. Lec 6 tenths faster in S2 and S3 mostly due to better track conditions.

via @f1debrief

[PlatinumZealot]

Reading the above, can someone clarify the ‘win’ for Binotto/Ferrari? Is it that they’ll be heavily involved in the 2025 engine regs? Or is it implying that they get to continue doing whatever it was with the engine? I didn’t get a clear ‘win’ from reading that...

This is like when Ross Brawn of MERECEDES had heavy involvement in the hybrid engine regulations. He practically wrote the thing. This is definitely a win for Ferrari if they can get closer to shaping the 2025 engine regs to their liking.

[dxpetrov]

That is loads of nonsense. FIA simply said, they have "reached a settlement with the team" doesn't mean "Ferrari was cheating and we caught them"! You only read it that way because YOU WANT TO. FIA has often managed to leave loop holes in their regulations and many teams over the decades, have exploited it. It doesn't make that exploitation ILLEGAL. Some people, including Adrian Newey are crying that Mercedes' DAS system is Illegal. Does it make it Illegal or cheating? Whatever FIA understands about the system, is like Michael Masi said, they can't reveal the details to anyone outside of the parties involved. If you want to go ahead and believe it is CHEATING and ILLEGAL, you are free to do so, but it won't become universal truth for everyone.

And once again, you do not settle and cover up with all reputation damages that come from that if there is nothing illegal, or at least very, very shady. They only do this if the damage from opening up is expected to be larger than the damage from covering up. If all was legal, they'd come out with that. If it was some creative interpretation of the rules, they'd probably explain what was the case too. This is not a case of "innocent until proven guilty" - they settled and with that admit guilt to something, we just don't know what. You can pretend that isn't the case, but that is only because YOU WANT TO. Now, we can speculate a lot about what the exact issue is, but we won't know that until someone speaks out. Which will happen, sooner or later. I'm anyway putting my bet on that it was either outright illegal, or perhaps in accordance with the letter of the regulations but so obviously against the spirit of it, that they chose for reputation damage from coverup over damage from admittance. Time will tell.

Reputation damage, cover up, shady? Is that what the FIA statement says? Because you read it that way, doesn't translate that into truth. There is nothing that has been proven and there is nothing to discuss there.

Ferrari: the FIA ​​agreement on engines? A victory for Binotto

For the first time, Ferrari has adopted the same tactic on the engine that James Allison played for the approval of the DAS. The Cavallino technicians wrote a series of letters to Nicholas Tombazis on the use of the power unit and the intercooler in which all the doubts concerning the interpretations of the gray areas of the regulation were clarified and obtaining all authorizations to start a season without the continuous ballet of controversy that characterized the last world championship.
.
.
.
If things go as they hope in Maranello, it will not be a year of transition at all with the Scuderia technicians voted on the 2021 project. Quite the opposite. And the nervousness of Toto Wolff and Christian Horner, when they understood what the real value of the FIA-Ferrari agreement was, is more than ever justified. But the Federation, which never took a clear position on the engine issue last year, has already put a dam on the controversy.

This time it's up to Helmut Marko or Max Verstappen to prove if there's anything that's not legal about the Red.

No, the pure logic makes you read it this way actually...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... g/4705941/

[JonoNic]

The last time we had an underpowered car with too much drag was the Honda powered Mclaren. Does anyone have stats that shows a similarity between these gains and losses on the track?

[LM10]

No, the pure logic makes you read it this way actually...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... g/4705941/

Usually it's not really the case when a team talks very negatively about something. I'm not telling it's not the case, but it's a bit tricky to see it as a definitive proof. Toto has taught us very well in last years. Most people named it mind games.

[Sevach]

There's a lot of grey area on Binotto's statements.

"We are not as strong as we were last year", might mean compared to others, rather than a straight up less powerful engine.

[restless]

Settlement means out of court. As in OK you haven't convicted us as cheaters yet and you probably never will. And as far as we know you have nor proof and as we are concerned we are not cheating. But to get you off our arses we will settle on some sort of "payment".

Maybe in Western Europe that's what people see...
But I see: "ok you caught us, but we are too important and you know it, and we didn't become champions, so take this payment and we swear to be good guys"
Just saying.

[bluechris]

Settlement means out of court. As in OK you haven't convicted us as cheaters yet and you probably never will. And as far as we know you have nor proof and as we are concerned we are not cheating. But to get you off our arses we will settle on some sort of "payment".

Maybe in Western Europe that's what people see...
But I see: "ok you caught us, but we are too important and you know it, and we didn't become champions, so take this payment and we swear to be good guys"
Just saying.

Or you cought us but we think the others do this and that so you must investigate them. Bye bye F1 then.

Seriously guys it became monotonic without proof, everyone say here whatever he wants, its destroying the forum and makes it a pub gathering before a football match.

[Mr.G]

There's a lot of grey area on Binotto's statements.

"We are not as strong as we were last year", might mean compared to others, rather than a straight up less powerful engine.

It also can mean - we are stronger