[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[jumpingfish]

Is it good to take 2 drivers with so different driving styles? If Vettel wants superstable rear and Leclerc doesn't, I think it's good that Vettel will go out, there is no chance for him if Ferrari will build cars for Leclerc's style. Also, does anybody know what about Sainz' style, how does he drive, as Leclerc or Vettel? If he prefers stable rear as Vettel it will end his carreer in Ferrari, available only 1 role - "barrichello".
If Vettel can't find a place for 2021 but still wants to drive in F1, he should to go to rally for 1 year or at least to buy a rally car and drive it. We say here "take a hair of the dog that bit you": Seb should learn how to manage unstable rear end, after rally on dirty or snowy surface it will be so good for him to feel himself better in F1 car.

[timbo]

One could see a lot in turn 3 when Vettel was behind Stroll. He nearly ran into Stroll when he was chased by Ric (lap 15) just like he did it later with Sainz (plus too late on the brake in the later case).
The reason was that Vet takes a completely different line in turn 3, he turns in way earlier and takes much more speed to the apex (early apex). The others turn in later and have a cleaner exit (late apex).
Obviously the stile is relying 100% on the rear being well under control. It is strange, that he tries to stick to this style, while everyone else was on late apex in turn 3.

Watch this:

I don't see Vettel turning in earlier than Hamilton, if anything he drives slightly later and "squarer" apex and relaxes steering more on the exit.

The way Vettel drove in the race could have been a part of his damage limitation strategy. If the rear end is unpredictable it can be beneficial to load fronts more, generating understeer, but also generally load the car for longer time but more gradually, so there is a time to catch the rear if it steps out.

[timbo]

Is it good to take 2 drivers with so different driving styles? If Vettel wants superstable rear and Leclerc doesn't, I think it's good that Vettel will go out, there is no chance for him if Ferrari will build cars for Leclerc's style. Also, does anybody know what about Sainz' style, how does he drive, as Leclerc or Vettel?

While it makes sence, there is a fundamental question whether this is beneficial or not overall. If Ferrari makes a very fast and balanced car which is able to take fight with Mercedes, will Leclerc still be faster? And if his style is able to cope with a flawed car, can he guide the direction towards a balanced car which is nice on its tyres etc.?
I remember reading somewhere that Ferrari relied a lot on Barichello's input for car development as Michael could deal with different cars with almost too much of an ease.

Of course, all of this is a moot point anyway now that Vettel is out at the end of the year.

[jumpingfish]

While it makes sence, there is a fundamental question whether this is beneficial or not overall. If Ferrari makes a very fast and balanced car which is able to take fight with Mercedes, will Leclerc still be faster? And if his style is able to cope with a flawed car, can he guide the direction towards a balanced car which is nice on its tyres etc.?
I remember reading somewhere that Ferrari relied a lot on Barichello's input for car development as Michael could deal with different cars with almost too much of an ease.
Of course, all of this is a moot point anyway now that Vettel is out at the end of the year.

True, it's too late for him to change himself.

[Jambier]

VETTEL is not a top driver, we know that, and with a difficult car it is even worse (2014, 2020)

LEC is a top driver kind, like Alonso, that can push even bad cars

[Jaisonas]

Vettel may not be a top driver, but the car he was driving was very different from the one Leclerc was driving and thats a fact.

[PlatinumZealot]

Vettel cannot drive LeClerc's car so he cannot complain about having different setups.

[pierrre]

whats obvious is that the scuderia ferrari's problem is way more than binotto's claim hungarian aerodynamic package, red herring maybe to a much more deeper problem

[ENGINE TUNER]

He needs a solid rear and obviously can't fully adapt his style when he's not happy with how the car behaves.

Vettel told RTL that they needed to seriously trim the front downforce to get the oversteer out of the car. As you pointed out Vettel needs a planted rear while Leclerc can live with (a bit of) oversteer. That's why Leclerc was p2 today and Vettel finished p10 and not the other way around. Vettel isn't happy with the car behaviour at all. Maybe Leclerc can also just drive around the issues a bit better than Vettel. Still the car is crap compared to the mercs.

Vettel didn't spin because of the car, he spun because he attempted an absurd pass and was forced to abort in order to avoid a collision. In actuality that was some of the better driving that Vettel has accomplished in the last couple years, normally he would have just crashed into the other car AND spun. Why are people making so many excuses for his incompetence? Vettel has never been good in traffic regardless of the car.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Vettel may not be a top driver, but the car he was driving was very different from the one Leclerc was driving and thats a fact.

Since "thats a fact" where is your proof?

Vettel's mistake was NOT because of the car, it was a misjudged passing attempt.

[JordanMugen]

whats obvious is that the scuderia ferrari's problem is way more than binotto's claim hungarian aerodynamic package, red herring maybe to a much more deeper problem

Actually, Binotto said clearly on Sky TV that the car is OK on grip-limited sections (corners) but loses 0.7sec on power-limited sections (straights)... He said Hungary update will not help about fixing the deficit in power-limited sections.

Balance is another matter, but cornering speed is competitive compared to Mercedes:


You can see that the laptime is lost on the straight. +0.5sec from less power, +0.2sec from more drag would fully explain the 0.7sec straight-line time loss Binotto reports.

[Jaisonas]

Vettel may not be a top driver, but the car he was driving was very different from the one Leclerc was driving and thats a fact.

Since "thats a fact" where is your proof?

Vettel's mistake was NOT because of the car, it was a misjudged passing attempt.

Here's your proof, unless you want to blame crippling oversteer on driving as well

Compared to leclec's car

[PlatinumZealot]

Vettel stuck his nose in a closing door and paid the price. Over steer has nothing to do with that spin.
Everybody's concern is his inability to keep a cool head when LeClerc is in front.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Vettel may not be a top driver, but the car he was driving was very different from the one Leclerc was driving and thats a fact.

Since "thats a fact" where is your proof?

Vettel's mistake was NOT because of the car, it was a misjudged passing attempt.

Here's your proof, unless you want to blame crippling oversteer on driving as well
https://streamable.com/769gbq
Compared to leclec's car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K74Gwf ... hEsBgnV0mI

It is false to blame Vettel's spin on the car when he clearly tried a misjudged divebomb into Sainz. If you feel that I point out too many of Vettel's mistakes it's not because of me, it is because he makes more mistakes than most. Stop your bias and stop censoring the truth.

Maybe Vettel should learn how to set up his car and also learn how to use his tools, diff settings and brake balance to get his car dialled in better. The cars are most probably using the exact same parts, it is the drivers in the Ferrari cars are what is different. [...]

[fritticaldi]

On the commercial side the sponsor logos of Weichai and Riva have disappeared from the Ferrari. The Chinese sponsor was with Ferrari since 2013 and was present during the launch of the current model.