[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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M840TR
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:23 pm
M840TR wrote:Lots of talk about Renault and RP suddenly being miles ahead of Mclaren now. Key thing to remember is the Mcl35 still seems to have a higher peak than the rest if conditions suit it. In Sochi FP3 it seemed a clear 2nd fastest yet the pendulum swung come Quali as the wind picked.

With the new aero package seemingly addressed at this specific problem, the season is far from being written off yet.
I don’t think anyone is saying that they are miles ahead, but at least RP (and by the team’s own admission) is a few tenths ahead of the MCL35... The Renault, I believe it is on par, maybe a bit faster on certain days and a bit slower on others.

The last 2 races haven’t been representative either... Mugello was a chaotic race and Sochi, we lost Carlos in Lap 1 and Lando was at the back of the grid by the time the race got going.


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Maybe with the W11 suspension RP can get ahead but Mugello and Sochi had windy quali sessions which doesn't suit the car, and even then Perez wasn't miles ahead. But Spa and Monza they were quicker and very close in Spain.

I'm eager to see the new upgrade on Perez's RP and Mcl35 next week.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:28 am
This is a little off topic but Honda is pulling out of F1 at the end of 2021. We should have kept the Mercedes Engines all this time as it was proven that Honda doesn't have what it takes to compete in todays F1. What's gonna happen to the Honda fans though?

That wasn't an option. Merc gave McLaren alternatives, either you use our PU in F1 or you make your own cars (outside of F1) not both.

That stance has since changed. Probably cause they have gotten the most out of that arrangement right now.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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M840TR wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:16 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:23 pm
M840TR wrote:Lots of talk about Renault and RP suddenly being miles ahead of Mclaren now. Key thing to remember is the Mcl35 still seems to have a higher peak than the rest if conditions suit it. In Sochi FP3 it seemed a clear 2nd fastest yet the pendulum swung come Quali as the wind picked.

With the new aero package seemingly addressed at this specific problem, the season is far from being written off yet.
I don’t think anyone is saying that they are miles ahead, but at least RP (and by the team’s own admission) is a few tenths ahead of the MCL35... The Renault, I believe it is on par, maybe a bit faster on certain days and a bit slower on others.

The last 2 races haven’t been representative either... Mugello was a chaotic race and Sochi, we lost Carlos in Lap 1 and Lando was at the back of the grid by the time the race got going.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Maybe with the W11 suspension RP can get ahead but Mugello and Sochi had windy quali sessions which doesn't suit the car, and even then Perez wasn't miles ahead. But Spa and Monza they were quicker and very close in Spain.

I'm eager to see the new upgrade on Perez's RP and Mcl35 next week.
We'll see what happens next week. If they bring the whole package and how that all plays out.

the EDGE
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:07 pm
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:28 am
This is a little off topic but Honda is pulling out of F1 at the end of 2021. We should have kept the Mercedes Engines all this time as it was proven that Honda doesn't have what it takes to compete in todays F1. What's gonna happen to the Honda fans though?

That wasn't an option. Merc gave McLaren alternatives, either you use our PU in F1 or you make your own cars (outside of F1) not both.

That stance has since changed. Probably cause they have gotten the most out of that arrangement right now.
Are you saying Mercedes refused to let McLaren use their F1 PU because of McLaren move into the super car automotive industry?

Macklaren
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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the EDGE wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:26 pm
diffuser wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:07 pm
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:28 am
This is a little off topic but Honda is pulling out of F1 at the end of 2021. We should have kept the Mercedes Engines all this time as it was proven that Honda doesn't have what it takes to compete in todays F1. What's gonna happen to the Honda fans though?

That wasn't an option. Merc gave McLaren alternatives, either you use our PU in F1 or you make your own cars (outside of F1) not both.

That stance has since changed. Probably cause they have gotten the most out of that arrangement right now.
Are you saying Mercedes refused to let McLaren use their F1 PU because of McLaren move into the super car automotive industry?
Pretty much...there is a lot of press around the time of the split that it was related to both Spygate and McLaren's roadcar ambitions (and Ron unwillingness to sell a stake to Mercedes)

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Macklaren wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:08 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:26 pm
diffuser wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:07 pm



That wasn't an option. Merc gave McLaren alternatives, either you use our PU in F1 or you make your own cars (outside of F1) not both.

That stance has since changed. Probably cause they have gotten the most out of that arrangement right now.
Are you saying Mercedes refused to let McLaren use their F1 PU because of McLaren move into the super car automotive industry?
Pretty much...there is a lot of press around the time of the split that it was related to both Spygate and McLaren's roadcar ambitions (and Ron unwillingness to sell a stake to Mercedes)
The way I recall it was Ron said there is no way to win the championship as an engine customer, and went looking?
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

CjC
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:19 pm
Macklaren wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:08 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:26 pm


Are you saying Mercedes refused to let McLaren use their F1 PU because of McLaren move into the super car automotive industry?
Pretty much...there is a lot of press around the time of the split that it was related to both Spygate and McLaren's roadcar ambitions (and Ron unwillingness to sell a stake to Mercedes)
The way I recall it was Ron said there is no way to win the championship as an engine customer, and went looking?
I think they are referring back to 2008/09 about Ron not selling a stake.

You are correct though, Ron said that In 2014/15 about not winning the championship as a customer.
He had to say that to save face for not allowing Mercedes to buy more shares- all of this Mercedes success could have been ours #-o
Just a fan's point of view

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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CjC wrote:
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:19 pm
Macklaren wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:08 pm
Pretty much...there is a lot of press around the time of the split that it was related to both Spygate and McLaren's roadcar ambitions (and Ron unwillingness to sell a stake to Mercedes)
The way I recall it was Ron said there is no way to win the championship as an engine customer, and went looking?
I think they are referring back to 2008/09 about Ron not selling a stake.

You are correct though, Ron said that In 2014/15 about not winning the championship as a customer.
He had to say that to save face for not allowing Mercedes to buy more shares- all of this Mercedes success could have been ours #-o
Not really, back in 2014/15 the PU rules didn’t state that all teams should be using the latest spec engine or have access to the same PU specs or maps (there were Teams like Sauber using Ferrari’s one year old engine for example).

With those rules in place, Mercedes didn’t had to provide Mclaren with for example “Party Mode”, therefore Mclaren would have been at a disadvantage... In addition, the fact that Mclaren had no input in PU layout, made becoming Honda’s “Works” Team very appealing if they wanted to fight for the championship... We all know how that didn’t pan out as expected, but given the information that Mclaren had at that point in time and with the rules as they were when decisions were made, going to Honda was the right move.


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adrianjordan
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:07 pm
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:28 am
This is a little off topic but Honda is pulling out of F1 at the end of 2021. We should have kept the Mercedes Engines all this time as it was proven that Honda doesn't have what it takes to compete in todays F1. What's gonna happen to the Honda fans though?

That wasn't an option. Merc gave McLaren alternatives, either you use our PU in F1 or you make your own cars (outside of F1) not both.

That stance has since changed. Probably cause they have gotten the most out of that arrangement right now.
I think Mercedes don't see themselves competing in the same segment as McLaren Road cars either. Yes the AMG GT could be argued to be a rival for McLaren, but I honestly think they're different customers. I don't think someone looking at a brute of a front engined, rear wheel drive GT is also looking at mid-engined cars and vice versa.
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?

mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:57 pm
CjC wrote:
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:19 pm


The way I recall it was Ron said there is no way to win the championship as an engine customer, and went looking?
I think they are referring back to 2008/09 about Ron not selling a stake.

You are correct though, Ron said that In 2014/15 about not winning the championship as a customer.
He had to say that to save face for not allowing Mercedes to buy more shares- all of this Mercedes success could have been ours #-o
Not really, back in 2014/15 the PU rules didn’t state that all teams should be using the latest spec engine or have access to the same PU specs or maps (there were Teams like Sauber using Ferrari’s one year old engine for example).

With those rules in place, Mercedes didn’t had to provide Mclaren with for example “Party Mode”, therefore Mclaren would have been at a disadvantage... In addition, the fact that Mclaren had no input in PU layout, made becoming Honda’s “Works” Team very appealing if they wanted to fight for the championship... We all know how that didn’t pan out as expected, but given the information that Mclaren had at that point in time and with the rules as they were when decisions were made, going to Honda was the right move.


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Plus $100m a year and free engines, and the resurrection of a legendary partnership, knowing about Ron, his Hubris and his rate card, I think they would have been strong reasons to leave Merc in any situation.

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:57 pm
CjC wrote: I think they are referring back to 2008/09 about Ron not selling a stake.

You are correct though, Ron said that In 2014/15 about not winning the championship as a customer.
He had to say that to save face for not allowing Mercedes to buy more shares- all of this Mercedes success could have been ours #-o
Not really, back in 2014/15 the PU rules didn’t state that all teams should be using the latest spec engine or have access to the same PU specs or maps (there were Teams like Sauber using Ferrari’s one year old engine for example).

With those rules in place, Mercedes didn’t had to provide Mclaren with for example “Party Mode”, therefore Mclaren would have been at a disadvantage... In addition, the fact that Mclaren had no input in PU layout, made becoming Honda’s “Works” Team very appealing if they wanted to fight for the championship... We all know how that didn’t pan out as expected, but given the information that Mclaren had at that point in time and with the rules as they were when decisions were made, going to Honda was the right move.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Plus $100m a year and free engines, and the resurrection of a legendary partnership, knowing about Ron, his Hubris and his rate card, I think they would have been strong reasons to leave Merc in any situation.
Definitely... Overall it was a good concept, didn’t work out because of all of the reasons we are all aware of, but hindsight is always 20/20... Back then, if Mclaren wanted to win, it needed a works deal, today the rules allow them to keep works team.


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NiyolHuayra
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Here's to a good weekend., hope we can get some good points.

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_cerber1
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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The preliminary forecast promises a lot of rainfall on the racing weekend. The Grand Prix can turn into a lottery.

Ground Effect
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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_cerber1 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:49 am
The preliminary forecast promises a lot of rainfall on the racing weekend. The Grand Prix can turn into a lottery.
Nurburgring in the wet? Yes please! Though changeable would be more appreciated. =D>
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

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_cerber1
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Ground Effect wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:26 am
Nurburgring in the wet? Yes please! Though changeable would be more appreciated. =D>
Given our narrow settings window, rain and cold, this can end up being very difficult for McLaren.