[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[billamend]

What FP1? Today's FP1? That was cancelled due to bad weather? I guess you are joking. And dont forget the fact that Mclaren is always slower during FP1. Anything can happen in the constructor's table, even if we improve our car. Others might improve their's even more. All I want it for both cars to finish. The best result will come.

I'm guessing he is talking about the car evolution graph.

[Szabi1112]

Having seen the picture about car
‘s progress during the FP1, it was shocked to know. We can easily find ourselves on the 5th position of the constructor’s table

Nono! There was a chart in the broadcast which shows the progress of the cars during the season. Unfortunately i cant paste it because I’m on mobile. But somebody is likely to paste that here.

[_cerber1]

In my opinion, this is very strange information, I would like to understand by what criteria the assessment was carried out.

[billamend]

This is all we know:

[CjC]

https://radikal.ru

In my opinion, this is very strange information, I would like to understand by what criteria the assessment was carried out.

Agreed, these new official F1 info graphics are always very strange.
Ferrari have lost a tenth and a half compared to Mercedes?? Yea right it’s way more than that.

[mwillems]

Bad news about FP1, we did need time to test everything and this is another thing that is not going to help us move the car forward.

[M840TR]

https://radikal.ru

In my opinion, this is very strange information, I would like to understand by what criteria the assessment was carried out.

Agreed, these new official F1 info graphics are always very strange.
Ferrari have lost a tenth and a half compared to Mercedes?? Yea right it’s way more than that.

Says it all. AWS insights are such a joke. Ferrari is even slower than Alpha Tauri.

[Fulcrum]

My two cents: its an in-season measure of development, using Mercedes as the reference. Its not improvement relative to last season, in which case the picture would be very different.

In addition, its highly likely to be machine-learning derived, so it will be sensitive to how the models were seeded (their starting conditions). If the models incorporated the first race in Austria as this initial point of reference, they're not going to be as representative considering that race was chaotic with multiple retirements.

Lastly, the "gain" would be relative to some normalized track dynamics, not any track in particular, so its quite possible the "gains" are not representative of any order we have observed at any specific track thus far.

[SmallSoldier]

I’m going to agree with you on that though. Maybe it’s my delivery.

I like the new pragmatic views and hated the old over promising and under delivering none sense.
I like how they are realistic now, I know as much as anyone that we only have the 5th fastest car in general and we will inevitably be overhauled in the constructors.
It’s just the lack of fight, I feel he’s half rolled himself over for the inevitable rather than squaring up to it and I’ll say their names again à la Alonso and Hamilton. You don’t hear them saying on a Thursday that they are going to out on track a wollop everyone I know, but we know that they will do everything in their power to fight the opposition.
Basically I prefer Seidl and Sainzs press releases than Norris’. I like Lando and I’ll leave it there before people think I’m a hater which I am not.

Did you watch the race at Sochi? How Lando was defending from Albon? If you did and you still believe that he doesn’t have a fight in him (even when that was for the last positions on the grid) nothing will change your mind.


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[CjC]

My two cents: its an in-season measure of development, using Mercedes as the reference. Its not improvement relative to last season, in which case the picture would be very different.

In addition, its highly likely to be machine-learning derived, so it will be sensitive to how the models were seeded (their starting conditions). If the models incorporated the first race in Austria as this initial point of reference, they're not going to be as representative considering that race was chaotic with multiple retirements.

Lastly, the "gain" would be relative to some normalized track dynamics, not any track in particular, so its quite possible the "gains" are not representative of any order we have observed at any specific track thus far.

You are right it is machine learning.
I read a massive article on the F1/ AWS project when they came up with the ‘Top 20 fastest drivers of all time’ and they confirmed then that it’s mainly machine learning.

Karin on Sky in FP2 said he’s even confused by the graphic that’s even after he and his Sky colleagues were given an in depth explanation by the people who created the graphic (probably Rob Smedley).

I think what F1s problem is.... they come up with some really complicated way to create a graphic (Would you expect anything less )
Then bang a really simple, unexplained graphic on the screen and in reality you really need a PhD to fully understand it. They then give an explanation on Twitter (I don’t have an account) and still no one understands

[CjC]

I’m going to agree with you on that though. Maybe it’s my delivery.

I like the new pragmatic views and hated the old over promising and under delivering none sense.
I like how they are realistic now, I know as much as anyone that we only have the 5th fastest car in general and we will inevitably be overhauled in the constructors.
It’s just the lack of fight, I feel he’s half rolled himself over for the inevitable rather than squaring up to it and I’ll say their names again à la Alonso and Hamilton. You don’t hear them saying on a Thursday that they are going to out on track a wollop everyone I know, but we know that they will do everything in their power to fight the opposition.
Basically I prefer Seidl and Sainzs press releases than Norris’. I like Lando and I’ll leave it there before people think I’m a hater which I am not.

Did you watch the race at Sochi? How Lando was defending from Albon? If you did and you still believe that he doesn’t have a fight in him (even when that was for the last positions on the grid) nothing will change your mind.


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You got voted up for this answer??
I have no words....

Yes a did watch the race
Yes I saw that fight.
Was I talking about the race? No
Was I talking about the pre weekend comments? Yes
Did you read any of my previous posts?

[Jackles-UK]

https://radikal.ru

In my opinion, this is very strange information, I would like to understand by what criteria the assessment was carried out.

I also have a multitude of issues with this graphic.

It seems to assume (or at least indicate) that Mercedes have not moved forward at all compared to themselves over the course of the season. As a result how are they judging the improvement of the other teams? From the performance difference from Mercedes’ level at the start of the season or their post-Sochi pace? I struggle to believe that Mercedes have been out developed by every team on the grid except Ferrari - if anything, I think it could be argued that they have moved further ahead of most teams than they were in Austria.

[godlameroso]

https://radikal.ru

In my opinion, this is very strange information, I would like to understand by what criteria the assessment was carried out.

Agreed, these new official F1 info graphics are always very strange.
Ferrari have lost a tenth and a half compared to Mercedes?? Yea right it’s way more than that.

This is how they've developed on average throughout the season, this takes into account race pace gap on average per track. Granted it's not a completely accurate picture because if you're in traffic you will be drastically slower than the cars in front who don't have to deal with that, and they're already faster by the fact they qualified ahead.

However, the picture is just how the teams have developed, how much they have gained relative to Mercedes. I'd say Ferrari has made a step forward and the data is outdated for some but relevant for others.

For instance McLaren in the middle of introducing an aero package, which will require a race or two to dial in, this could give them a boost, or nothing at all.

[godlameroso]

https://radikal.ru

In my opinion, this is very strange information, I would like to understand by what criteria the assessment was carried out.

I also have a multitude of issues with this graphic.

It seems to assume (or at least indicate) that Mercedes have not moved forward at all compared to themselves over the course of the season. As a result how are they judging the improvement of the other teams? From the performance difference from Mercedes’ level at the start of the season or their post-Sochi pace? I struggle to believe that Mercedes have been out developed by every team on the grid except Ferrari - if anything, I think it could be argued that they have moved further ahead of most teams than they were in Austria.

Mercedes made a small .2 second gain when they updated their bargeboards, they have been pretty dominant since then, so I guess they figure they can take their foot a bit off this year's car and start on next year's and 2022 since they have a pretty sizeable lead in both engine and chassis performance. This will allow them to stay one step ahead unless others take massive gains. Once McLaren gets their new philosophy working right I expect them to match whatever gains Renault has taken and then some.

I do agree with the graph showing Red Bull gaining nearly half a second on Mercedes, at least if Sochi is anything to go by.

[SmallSoldier]

I’m going to agree with you on that though. Maybe it’s my delivery.

I like the new pragmatic views and hated the old over promising and under delivering none sense.
I like how they are realistic now, I know as much as anyone that we only have the 5th fastest car in general and we will inevitably be overhauled in the constructors.
It’s just the lack of fight, I feel he’s half rolled himself over for the inevitable rather than squaring up to it and I’ll say their names again à la Alonso and Hamilton. You don’t hear them saying on a Thursday that they are going to out on track a wollop everyone I know, but we know that they will do everything in their power to fight the opposition.
Basically I prefer Seidl and Sainzs press releases than Norris’. I like Lando and I’ll leave it there before people think I’m a hater which I am not.

Did you watch the race at Sochi? How Lando was defending from Albon? If you did and you still believe that he doesn’t have a fight in him (even when that was for the last positions on the grid) nothing will change your mind.


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You got voted up for this answer??
I have no words....

Yes a did watch the race
Yes I saw that fight.
Was I talking about the race? No
Was I talking about the pre weekend comments? Yes
Did you read any of my previous posts?

Maybe because you are making an assessment on whether Norris is or isn’t “in the fight” (to quote you) by taking his answer to a question out of context.

When question in regards to holding P3 in the Constructors Championship, his answer was:

“It’s going to be tough. Very tough,” continued Norris. “I’d say through the majority of this year, Racing Point have been the third-best car, second-best car for some of the races, so in some ways they should be ahead… they’ve shown that they have a very, very quick car, so I’m not surprised.
“I’m not shocked or worried if they come past. I think we almost knew at some point that was going to happen,” he concluded.

I don’t see anything wrong in his answer... The RP is faster than the MCL35, or at least it has been for the majority of the championship and still is (pending what the upgrades brought by Mclaren do on track)... The fact that Mclaren is ahead of them at this point has to do with an strong start to the Championship, Solid Weekends, Good Luck and the 15 points taken away from RP.

RP “should” be ahead of Mclaren if we only consider car performance, therefore Norris (nor I) would be shocked if they get past Mclaren in the WCC.

The fact that he is realistic in regards to the performance of the MCL35 compared to it’s rivals and that is not selling smoke or just throwing a cliche answer as: “We will fight until the end” doesn’t make him more or less engage and trying his best to beat them... My comment in regards to the race in Sochi has to do with his attitude “in the car”, which at the end of the day is the only thing that matters... And he has showed that hunger since race 1, where he got his first podium thanks to pushing until the last lap of the race.


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