[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Mclarensenna
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Joined: 15 Oct 2018, 02:49

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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adrianjordan wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 10:28
Mclarensenna wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 02:47
Darth-Piekus wrote:
22 Nov 2020, 18:51
Mclaren is not 2 seconds slower than Mercedes or Red Bull. That might have been true 2 years before but not anymore. At the moment depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum. All they need to do is keep making strides.
Mclaren is generally 2 seconds off the "RACE PACE" of Mercedes. Qualifying no it is closer.

I can give many examples but there are many things to consider. 1 of the main things is that Ham is generally in the lead cruising the car home trying to save the engine. While the midfield is generally always pushing to the limit in the case of Mclaren and Renault which both seem quite similar in pace. But yes sometimes they are stuck behind cars also. But lets look at the lap times of some races below

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Ham is consistantly 2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race. Hes fastest lap is 2.3 seconds quicker

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris

In Portugal look after the second pit stop with Norris on slightly fresher tyres. Ham is consistently about 1 second a lap quicker cruising the car home from 1st position.


But the Merc pace is generally 1-2 seconds plus quicker in race pace most races.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 20Hamilton

Russia is 1of the only races where Ham had to actually put the hammer down after the penalties he got to catch the leaders and look at the gap to Norris. Norris even on fresh tyres and Ham used was still a MASSIVE 2 seconds off the pace.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Italy Ham had to put the hammer down after another penalty. He stuck in traffic though with Norris in clear air but he still 1 second a lap quicker and this power track which seems to have not been 1 of Mercs best tracks.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Ricciardo
lets compare Rics podium in the German grand prix to Ham. Ric was doing qualifying laps trying to keep Perez behind and Rics fastest lap was 1.6 seconds off Ham. And the Renaults were slightly quicker than the Mclarens that race.

The Mclaren to Merc gap is a good 2 seconds a lap quicker most races. But it is difficult to see it as most times Ham is just pacing himself up front. But even pacing he is still generally at least 1 second a lap quicker lapping half the field most races..
So the Gap is huge still.
I am not saying this to bash Mclaren in any way as i want them to close the gap as would love to see Ric fighting the leaders next year. The more cars up front the better. But realistically the gap is too big and unlikely. Maybe 2022 with the rule change will bring them closer
Convenient that you ignore races where Mclaren set the fastest lap.
"depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum."
That was the comment i was replying to which greatly under estimates the gap Mclaren have to Mercedes still in race pace. So yes that statement is not entirely accurate as the gap varies from 1- to even 2.5 seconds even in race pace.
I did not conveniently ignore anything so not sure what you are on about. But sure if you want to discuss i am here to help. Which races were Mclaren faster and i will analyze it for you :)

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Herr_Koos
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Holm86 wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 09:39
They should just name it MCL35.5
Adding a letter to a chassis name for an upgraded version has been standard practice for decades. McLaren have done it on several occasions, as have many other teams.

M840TR
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Joined: 13 Apr 2018, 21:04

Re: McLaren MCL35

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Herr_Koos wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 12:23
Holm86 wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 09:39
They should just name it MCL35.5
Adding a letter to a chassis name for an upgraded version has been standard practice for decades. McLaren have done it on several occasions, as have many other teams.
Think he's joking there mate.

SmallSoldier
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Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 03:54

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Darth-Piekus wrote:
22 Nov 2020, 18:51
Mclaren is not 2 seconds slower than Mercedes or Red Bull. That might have been true 2 years before but not anymore. At the moment depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum. All they need to do is keep making strides.
Mclaren is generally 2 seconds off the "RACE PACE" of Mercedes. Qualifying no it is closer.

I can give many examples but there are many things to consider. 1 of the main things is that Ham is generally in the lead cruising the car home trying to save the engine. While the midfield is generally always pushing to the limit in the case of Mclaren and Renault which both seem quite similar in pace. But yes sometimes they are stuck behind cars also. But lets look at the lap times of some races below

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Ham is consistantly 2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race. Hes fastest lap is 2.3 seconds quicker

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris

In Portugal look after the second pit stop with Norris on slightly fresher tyres. Ham is consistently about 1 second a lap quicker cruising the car home from 1st position.


But the Merc pace is generally 1-2 seconds plus quicker in race pace most races.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 20Hamilton

Russia is 1of the only races where Ham had to actually put the hammer down after the penalties he got to catch the leaders and look at the gap to Norris. Norris even on fresh tyres and Ham used was still a MASSIVE 2 seconds off the pace.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Italy Ham had to put the hammer down after another penalty. He stuck in traffic though with Norris in clear air but he still 1 second a lap quicker and this power track which seems to have not been 1 of Mercs best tracks.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Ricciardo
lets compare Rics podium in the German grand prix to Ham. Ric was doing qualifying laps trying to keep Perez behind and Rics fastest lap was 1.6 seconds off Ham. And the Renaults were slightly quicker than the Mclarens that race.

The Mclaren to Merc gap is a good 2 seconds a lap quicker most races. But it is difficult to see it as most times Ham is just pacing himself up front. But even pacing he is still generally at least 1 second a lap quicker lapping half the field most races..
So the Gap is huge still.
I am not saying this to bash Mclaren in any way as i want them to close the gap as would love to see Ric fighting the leaders next year. The more cars up front the better. But realistically the gap is too big and unlikely. Maybe 2022 with the rule change will bring them closer
Good analysis!


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SmallSoldier
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Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 03:54

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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adrianjordan wrote:
Mclarensenna wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 02:47
Darth-Piekus wrote:
22 Nov 2020, 18:51
Mclaren is not 2 seconds slower than Mercedes or Red Bull. That might have been true 2 years before but not anymore. At the moment depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum. All they need to do is keep making strides.
Mclaren is generally 2 seconds off the "RACE PACE" of Mercedes. Qualifying no it is closer.

I can give many examples but there are many things to consider. 1 of the main things is that Ham is generally in the lead cruising the car home trying to save the engine. While the midfield is generally always pushing to the limit in the case of Mclaren and Renault which both seem quite similar in pace. But yes sometimes they are stuck behind cars also. But lets look at the lap times of some races below

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Ham is consistantly 2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race. Hes fastest lap is 2.3 seconds quicker

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris

In Portugal look after the second pit stop with Norris on slightly fresher tyres. Ham is consistently about 1 second a lap quicker cruising the car home from 1st position.


But the Merc pace is generally 1-2 seconds plus quicker in race pace most races.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 20Hamilton

Russia is 1of the only races where Ham had to actually put the hammer down after the penalties he got to catch the leaders and look at the gap to Norris. Norris even on fresh tyres and Ham used was still a MASSIVE 2 seconds off the pace.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Italy Ham had to put the hammer down after another penalty. He stuck in traffic though with Norris in clear air but he still 1 second a lap quicker and this power track which seems to have not been 1 of Mercs best tracks.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Ricciardo
lets compare Rics podium in the German grand prix to Ham. Ric was doing qualifying laps trying to keep Perez behind and Rics fastest lap was 1.6 seconds off Ham. And the Renaults were slightly quicker than the Mclarens that race.

The Mclaren to Merc gap is a good 2 seconds a lap quicker most races. But it is difficult to see it as most times Ham is just pacing himself up front. But even pacing he is still generally at least 1 second a lap quicker lapping half the field most races..
So the Gap is huge still.
I am not saying this to bash Mclaren in any way as i want them to close the gap as would love to see Ric fighting the leaders next year. The more cars up front the better. But realistically the gap is too big and unlikely. Maybe 2022 with the rule change will bring them closer
Convenient that you ignore races where Mclaren set the fastest lap.
Fastest Lap does not represent “race pace”


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Emag
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Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Mclarensenna wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 02:47
Darth-Piekus wrote:
22 Nov 2020, 18:51
Mclaren is not 2 seconds slower than Mercedes or Red Bull. That might have been true 2 years before but not anymore. At the moment depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum. All they need to do is keep making strides.
Mclaren is generally 2 seconds off the "RACE PACE" of Mercedes. Qualifying no it is closer.

I can give many examples but there are many things to consider. 1 of the main things is that Ham is generally in the lead cruising the car home trying to save the engine. While the midfield is generally always pushing to the limit in the case of Mclaren and Renault which both seem quite similar in pace. But yes sometimes they are stuck behind cars also. But lets look at the lap times of some races below

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Ham is consistantly 2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race. Hes fastest lap is 2.3 seconds quicker

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris

In Portugal look after the second pit stop with Norris on slightly fresher tyres. Ham is consistently about 1 second a lap quicker cruising the car home from 1st position.


But the Merc pace is generally 1-2 seconds plus quicker in race pace most races.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 20Hamilton

Russia is 1of the only races where Ham had to actually put the hammer down after the penalties he got to catch the leaders and look at the gap to Norris. Norris even on fresh tyres and Ham used was still a MASSIVE 2 seconds off the pace.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Italy Ham had to put the hammer down after another penalty. He stuck in traffic though with Norris in clear air but he still 1 second a lap quicker and this power track which seems to have not been 1 of Mercs best tracks.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Ricciardo
lets compare Rics podium in the German grand prix to Ham. Ric was doing qualifying laps trying to keep Perez behind and Rics fastest lap was 1.6 seconds off Ham. And the Renaults were slightly quicker than the Mclarens that race.

The Mclaren to Merc gap is a good 2 seconds a lap quicker most races. But it is difficult to see it as most times Ham is just pacing himself up front. But even pacing he is still generally at least 1 second a lap quicker lapping half the field most races..
So the Gap is huge still.
I am not saying this to bash Mclaren in any way as i want them to close the gap as would love to see Ric fighting the leaders next year. The more cars up front the better. But realistically the gap is too big and unlikely. Maybe 2022 with the rule change will bring them closer
It really isn't 2 seconds a lap slower though. I would say its 1.5 at most and that's pushing it a bit. But it's hard to say how much faster a car is on the race because there are a lot of variables into play. For starters, when we say that x car is y seconds per lap slower than z car on race pace, we generally mean *average* laptime pace over the race distance. And that average value depends on a lot of things, but most importantly:

1) Teams have different goals from one another. If McLaren's goal for a particular race is 7th for example (because 7th is the most they think they can get from their data), then they don't have to put unnecessary strain on the car to push for nothing if their ultimate pace would still be not enough to get them anything else other than 7th. So they might by "cruising" while Mercedes is pushing hard for the lead of the race at the front.

2) Depending on what happens during the race / qualifying, midfield teams are bound to find themselves on traffic at some point. They do not have a big enough advantage over the backmarkers to pull a pitstops worth of distance on one stint. So they will find themselves on traffic on fresh tires when they got most performance potential. While the leaders are pushing close to their ultimate pace, McLaren might be stuck behind an Alfa Romeo with old tires (example).

3) Teams choose to use their ultimate pace on different segments of the race depending on the strategy. When Mercedes is choosing to push near their limit to extend the gap in front (example), McLaren might be saving the tires for a push later on. The problem is that this on raw data might make McLaren look like crap (and vice versa can happen too). Because McLaren might choose to use their ultimate pace while fighting for position. And while fighting for position you can never go as fast as you would go on clear air ...

Qualifying gives you a good idea between the performance gap between the cars. Of course, that gap might not always persist over the race too because as I said, there are a lot of factors involved that changes things. Also, the cars eat up the tires differently too, so it could very well be that Mercedes is able to extract more performance for the same amount of wear compared to McLaren. But I doubt that the gap between the cars would be as big as it seems on some races if we take away all of the shenanigans that happen throughout.

If McLaren is around 1 second behind Mercedes on qualifying, then I can't really imagine how the gap would be more than +/- 0.5 throughout a race distance (If we assume a simple undisturbed "marathon" race for both cars from start to finish).

Chicane
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Joined: 26 Jan 2016, 11:21

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Hamilton is in free, undisturbed, energy dense air up front most of the times while a midfield teams' pace is more often than not dictated by the pace of the car leading the midfield train. Yes the Merc is significantly quicker than Mclaren but to say it is quicker by 2 seconds per lap in identical conditions is stretching it. I would say it's around half a second less than that.

We saw at Monza, Mclaren's best race so far this season, Sainz was well within a second of Hamilton's race pace. So on some favorable tracks, Mclaren can lap within a second of Mercedes under identical conditions but on most tracks it hovers around a second and a half. We don't get to see that due to a myriad of factors including traffic and dirty air.
Quickshifter

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Mclarensenna
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Emag wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 18:18
Mclarensenna wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 02:47
Darth-Piekus wrote:
22 Nov 2020, 18:51
Mclaren is not 2 seconds slower than Mercedes or Red Bull. That might have been true 2 years before but not anymore. At the moment depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum. All they need to do is keep making strides.
Mclaren is generally 2 seconds off the "RACE PACE" of Mercedes. Qualifying no it is closer.

I can give many examples but there are many things to consider. 1 of the main things is that Ham is generally in the lead cruising the car home trying to save the engine. While the midfield is generally always pushing to the limit in the case of Mclaren and Renault which both seem quite similar in pace. But yes sometimes they are stuck behind cars also. But lets look at the lap times of some races below

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Ham is consistantly 2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race. Hes fastest lap is 2.3 seconds quicker

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris

In Portugal look after the second pit stop with Norris on slightly fresher tyres. Ham is consistently about 1 second a lap quicker cruising the car home from 1st position.


But the Merc pace is generally 1-2 seconds plus quicker in race pace most races.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 20Hamilton

Russia is 1of the only races where Ham had to actually put the hammer down after the penalties he got to catch the leaders and look at the gap to Norris. Norris even on fresh tyres and Ham used was still a MASSIVE 2 seconds off the pace.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Italy Ham had to put the hammer down after another penalty. He stuck in traffic though with Norris in clear air but he still 1 second a lap quicker and this power track which seems to have not been 1 of Mercs best tracks.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Ricciardo
lets compare Rics podium in the German grand prix to Ham. Ric was doing qualifying laps trying to keep Perez behind and Rics fastest lap was 1.6 seconds off Ham. And the Renaults were slightly quicker than the Mclarens that race.

The Mclaren to Merc gap is a good 2 seconds a lap quicker most races. But it is difficult to see it as most times Ham is just pacing himself up front. But even pacing he is still generally at least 1 second a lap quicker lapping half the field most races..
So the Gap is huge still.
I am not saying this to bash Mclaren in any way as i want them to close the gap as would love to see Ric fighting the leaders next year. The more cars up front the better. But realistically the gap is too big and unlikely. Maybe 2022 with the rule change will bring them closer
It really isn't 2 seconds a lap slower though. I would say its 1.5 at most and that's pushing it a bit. But it's hard to say how much faster a car is on the race because there are a lot of variables into play. For starters, when we say that x car is y seconds per lap slower than z car on race pace, we generally mean *average* laptime pace over the race distance. And that average value depends on a lot of things, but most importantly:

<------ I gave examples where it was over the 1.5 sec at most you just stated. Look at the lap times. Its not every race but there are races where Mclaren is even over 2 seconds off the race pace of Merc. The gap is massive unfortunately

1) Teams have different goals from one another. If McLaren's goal for a particular race is 7th for example (because 7th is the most they think they can get from their data), then they don't have to put unnecessary strain on the car to push for nothing if their ultimate pace would still be not enough to get them anything else other than 7th. So they might by "cruising" while Mercedes is pushing hard for the lead of the race at the front.

<---------- Ham in the Merc is generally cruising up front way way more than Midfield cars fighting for positions. Not vice versa.

2) Depending on what happens during the race / qualifying, midfield teams are bound to find themselves on traffic at some point. They do not have a big enough advantage over the backmarkers to pull a pitstops worth of distance on one stint. So they will find themselves on traffic on fresh tires when they got most performance potential. While the leaders are pushing close to their ultimate pace, McLaren might be stuck behind an Alfa Romeo with old tires (example).

<---------Again you making the exact same point you made before. The mercs overall cruise way more than the midfields in races than the midfield teams do.

3) Teams choose to use their ultimate pace on different segments of the race depending on the strategy. When Mercedes is choosing to push near their limit to extend the gap in front (example), McLaren might be saving the tires for a push later on. The problem is that this on raw data might make McLaren look like crap (and vice versa can happen too). Because McLaren might choose to use their ultimate pace while fighting for position. And while fighting for position you can never go as fast as you would go on clear air ...

<------ Again you basically making the exact same point i answered above

Qualifying gives you a good idea between the performance gap between the cars. Of course, that gap might not always persist over the race too because as I said, there are a lot of factors involved that changes things. Also, the cars eat up the tires differently too, so it could very well be that Mercedes is able to extract more performance for the same amount of wear compared to McLaren. But I doubt that the gap between the cars would be as big as it seems on some races if we take away all of the shenanigans that happen throughout.


If McLaren is around 1 second behind Mercedes on qualifying, then I can't really imagine how the gap would be more than +/- 0.5 throughout a race distance (If we assume a simple undisturbed "marathon" race for both cars from start to finish).

<----------My post does state that Mclaren is close in Qualifying but in race pace is where they struggle alot more compared to Merc. Yes the gap in race pace is that big please check i pasted examples even where the Merc is 2 seconds a lap quicker. The data does show the gap is greater than .5 in races. Its there. Do not shoot the messenger. Analyze each race 1 by 1 and you will see there are races with these very large gaps

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Mclarensenna
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Joined: 15 Oct 2018, 02:49

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 17:00
adrianjordan wrote:
Mclarensenna wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 02:47


Mclaren is generally 2 seconds off the "RACE PACE" of Mercedes. Qualifying no it is closer.

I can give many examples but there are many things to consider. 1 of the main things is that Ham is generally in the lead cruising the car home trying to save the engine. While the midfield is generally always pushing to the limit in the case of Mclaren and Renault which both seem quite similar in pace. But yes sometimes they are stuck behind cars also. But lets look at the lap times of some races below

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Ham is consistantly 2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race. Hes fastest lap is 2.3 seconds quicker

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris

In Portugal look after the second pit stop with Norris on slightly fresher tyres. Ham is consistently about 1 second a lap quicker cruising the car home from 1st position.


But the Merc pace is generally 1-2 seconds plus quicker in race pace most races.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 20Hamilton

Russia is 1of the only races where Ham had to actually put the hammer down after the penalties he got to catch the leaders and look at the gap to Norris. Norris even on fresh tyres and Ham used was still a MASSIVE 2 seconds off the pace.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Italy Ham had to put the hammer down after another penalty. He stuck in traffic though with Norris in clear air but he still 1 second a lap quicker and this power track which seems to have not been 1 of Mercs best tracks.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Ricciardo
lets compare Rics podium in the German grand prix to Ham. Ric was doing qualifying laps trying to keep Perez behind and Rics fastest lap was 1.6 seconds off Ham. And the Renaults were slightly quicker than the Mclarens that race.

The Mclaren to Merc gap is a good 2 seconds a lap quicker most races. But it is difficult to see it as most times Ham is just pacing himself up front. But even pacing he is still generally at least 1 second a lap quicker lapping half the field most races..
So the Gap is huge still.
I am not saying this to bash Mclaren in any way as i want them to close the gap as would love to see Ric fighting the leaders next year. The more cars up front the better. But realistically the gap is too big and unlikely. Maybe 2022 with the rule change will bring them closer
Convenient that you ignore races where Mclaren set the fastest lap.
Fastest Lap does not represent “race pace”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Exactly. Who can forget the 2016 Italian Grand prix where Alonso got lapped he was so slow in race pace. Yet pitt, put the hammer down and was a wopping 1 second quicker than Hams fastest lap and .7 seconds quicker than Rosbergs fastest lap in the Mercs up front.

According to the previous poster the Mclaren was the fastest car that day by a country Mile that day!!! Alonso shoukd have lapped the Mercs even! haha

The difference is the Mclaren cannot sustain that race pace over a stint of 20-30 laps. The tyres would be dead after 1 lap and over heating.
Alonso though just did it for fun or boredom it seems, as he was down in 14th and no chance of points.

Ground Effect
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Joined: 02 Mar 2018, 12:39

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Convenient that you ignore races where Mclaren set the fastest lap.[/quote]
Fastest Lap does not represent “race pace”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
[/quote]

Exactly. Who can forget the 2016 Italian Grand prix where Alonso got lapped he was so slow in race pace. Yet pitt, put the hammer down and was a wopping 1 second quicker than Hams fastest lap and .7 seconds quicker than Rosbergs fastest lap in the Mercs up front.

According to the previous poster the Mclaren was the fastest car that day by a country Mile that day!!! Alonso shoukd have lapped the Mercs even! haha

The difference is the Mclaren cannot sustain that race pace over a stint of 20-30 laps. The tyres would be dead after 1 lap and over heating.
Alonso though just did it for fun or boredom it seems, as he was down in 14th and no chance of points.
[/quote]

If I remember correctly, Fernando actually made a stop to switch to fresh rubber to try for fastest lap, presumably in qualy mode. So it’s a different case. I don’t think McLaren is 2 secs a lap slower than Mercedes in ultimate pace. Last year Seidl put the gap at between 1 sec to 1.5secs. There’s a considerable gap, but not convinced it’s up to 2secs. It’s well known that the midfield is extremely tight, so their race is a bit more complex than going flat out. It’s basically about who can save tyres for a final push, stay out longer in case of a safety car etc. Let’s not forget that as tight as the midfield is, those who qualify in the top 10 are racing and protecting their positions against those who qualified outside the top 10 and not only starting on a better compound, but a fresh set. So out of the gates, Carlos, Lando are not going flat out, they’re pacing themselves. Often we hear towards to end of the race their engineers tell them “maximum pace to the end”, that would be a good time to monitor their pace compared to the front runners.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Car Name discussion belongs in Team tread...

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Herr_Koos
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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mclaren111 wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 09:21
Car Name discussion belongs in Team tread...
This is the team thread.

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adrianjordan
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 11:34
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: McLaren MCL35

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Herr_Koos wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 09:39
mclaren111 wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 09:21
Car Name discussion belongs in Team tread...
This is the team thread.
Going to guess that got loved here lol
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

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adrianjordan
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Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Mclarensenna wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 10:38
adrianjordan wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 10:28
Mclarensenna wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 02:47


Mclaren is generally 2 seconds off the "RACE PACE" of Mercedes. Qualifying no it is closer.

I can give many examples but there are many things to consider. 1 of the main things is that Ham is generally in the lead cruising the car home trying to save the engine. While the midfield is generally always pushing to the limit in the case of Mclaren and Renault which both seem quite similar in pace. But yes sometimes they are stuck behind cars also. But lets look at the lap times of some races below

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Ham is consistantly 2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race. Hes fastest lap is 2.3 seconds quicker

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris

In Portugal look after the second pit stop with Norris on slightly fresher tyres. Ham is consistently about 1 second a lap quicker cruising the car home from 1st position.


But the Merc pace is generally 1-2 seconds plus quicker in race pace most races.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 20Hamilton

Russia is 1of the only races where Ham had to actually put the hammer down after the penalties he got to catch the leaders and look at the gap to Norris. Norris even on fresh tyres and Ham used was still a MASSIVE 2 seconds off the pace.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Italy Ham had to put the hammer down after another penalty. He stuck in traffic though with Norris in clear air but he still 1 second a lap quicker and this power track which seems to have not been 1 of Mercs best tracks.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Ricciardo
lets compare Rics podium in the German grand prix to Ham. Ric was doing qualifying laps trying to keep Perez behind and Rics fastest lap was 1.6 seconds off Ham. And the Renaults were slightly quicker than the Mclarens that race.

The Mclaren to Merc gap is a good 2 seconds a lap quicker most races. But it is difficult to see it as most times Ham is just pacing himself up front. But even pacing he is still generally at least 1 second a lap quicker lapping half the field most races..
So the Gap is huge still.
I am not saying this to bash Mclaren in any way as i want them to close the gap as would love to see Ric fighting the leaders next year. The more cars up front the better. But realistically the gap is too big and unlikely. Maybe 2022 with the rule change will bring them closer
Convenient that you ignore races where Mclaren set the fastest lap.
"depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum."
That was the comment i was replying to which greatly under estimates the gap Mclaren have to Mercedes still in race pace. So yes that statement is not entirely accurate as the gap varies from 1- to even 2.5 seconds even in race pace.
I did not conveniently ignore anything so not sure what you are on about. But sure if you want to discuss i am here to help. Which races were Mclaren faster and i will analyze it for you :)
It's just not as simple as you make out though.

McLaren are rarely, if ever in clean air during a race, so their entire setup and strategy are going to be sub-optimal because of dirty air and having to protect from cars around them.

There have been races where McLaren have been setting comparable lap times to Merc and RBR for prolonged stints and have set fastest lap, without pitting for fresh tyres etc. I don't have the data here to back that up because, well simply I don't have any data because I have too busy a life to have time to look that stuff up.

Simply put, none of us on here can possibly know the actual potential speed of any of the cars. So we cannot declare that any team is X amount faster or slower. Despite what many armchair experts will claim, we absolutely do not have enough information available to us.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Herr_Koos wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 09:39
mclaren111 wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 09:21
Car Name discussion belongs in Team tread...
This is the team thread.
I think not... This is Car - MCL35 - technical related tread...

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