[ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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siskue2005
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:18 am
adrianjordan wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:02 pm
If they do (turn up with a W11 clone), surely they'll be banned as cloning is against the 2021 rules.
Other than vague statements so far, there are no actual rules implemented that can stop copying or cloning. It seems almost impossible to define clear rules in this direction.
Yes correct, i dont think they can ever stop teams copying, nearly impossible if you ask me.

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Racer X
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Well well well well...
SENNA

gshevlin
gshevlin
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:03 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:18 am
adrianjordan wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:02 pm
If they do (turn up with a W11 clone), surely they'll be banned as cloning is against the 2021 rules.
Other than vague statements so far, there are no actual rules implemented that can stop copying or cloning. It seems almost impossible to define clear rules in this direction.
Yes correct, i dont think they can ever stop teams copying, nearly impossible if you ask me.
In the entire history of F1, I can only think of one car where copying led to significant legal and sporting issues - when the Arrows FA1 was ruled to be a direct copy of the Shadow DN9 in 1978. Arrows had to rapidly design and build a new car.
Teams have always copied other teams' designs and key features. Patrick Head was quite open about the Williams FW07 being a development of the Lotus 79 when the car first appeared. However, there is a big difference between copying and understanding. Without a understanding of how the part or concept you are copying works, copying usually gets you nothing but trouble. Other teams copied the Lotus (except for Ferrari, whose 12 cylinder inline engine was too wide to implement the concept), but their cars were not successful. The Williams FW07 was a very successful car, proving that Williams might have copied a lot of the concepts of the Lotus 79, but that they understood how that car worked and could implement the concept successfully.
On the other hand, the 2003 Toyota TF103 was, based on side-by-side visual analysis, an almost perfect copy of the Ferrari F2002. The Ferrari had won the previous years' championship; the Toyota TF103 never won a race. Ferrari muttered and threatened legal action but Toyota was not directly punished.
We have seen teams rapidly copying other teams' features, such as the S-duct/F-duct from a few years ago, and many aero features such as wings, barge-boards, brake ducts, double diffusers etc. However, sometimes the team does not understand why and how the parts actually work with the aero concept of the rival car, so the copied parts do not work as hoped and expected.
F1 has kind of shot itself in the foot on the subject of trying to ban copying, since they introduced the Listed Parts concept. Teams can buy identical copies of significant portions of another team's car and use them on their own cars. The whole idea of Listed Parts was supposedly to allow teams to use common parts where those parts do not confer a competitive advantage. The challenge is that any listed part is potentially a competitive advantage. Like, um, er, brake ducts...
My own personal opinion is that banning copying is (a) next to impossible, without expensive proactive inspections and pre-approval of almost every aspect of a team's design (b) misses the point that copying and understanding do not necessarily coincide.
This is merely another reflection of the dysfunctional attempt to regulate and equalize performance of cars based on design and technical regulations, instead of regulating performance by limiting the total amount that can be spent on the car design and team operations. If F1 can reliably police a cost cap, then it should be possible to open up the regulations and tell the teams "have at it, if you think you can build a faster car within the cost cap".

Raleigh
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Fantastic race pace today, Perez in the older spec car only 30 seconds down the road from Bottas over a clean race distance. Even better pace against Hamilton, 8 seconds down (net 18 seconds even if Hamilton had no penalty), amazing pace considering they were on the same tires and no mid or late race safety cars to bunch up the pack. Even had a long run with Perez and Hamilton lapping together about 3.5 seconds apart and matching laptimes.

Significant pace advantage over the Renaults, Perez hunted both down cleanly and then just cruised away, bodes well for the constructors battle.

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Raleigh wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:21 pm
Fantastic race pace today, Perez in the older spec car only 30 seconds down the road from Bottas over a clean race distance. Even better pace against Hamilton, 8 seconds down (net 18 seconds even if Hamilton had no penalty), amazing pace considering they were on the same tires and no mid or late race safety cars to bunch up the pack. Even had a long run with Perez and Hamilton lapping together about 3.5 seconds apart and matching laptimes.

Significant pace advantage over the Renaults, Perez hunted both down cleanly and then just cruised away, bodes well for the constructors battle.
I wonder if they are having regrets on signing Vettel?
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

zeph
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:09 pm
Raleigh wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:21 pm
Fantastic race pace today, Perez in the older spec car only 30 seconds down the road from Bottas over a clean race distance. Even better pace against Hamilton, 8 seconds down (net 18 seconds even if Hamilton had no penalty), amazing pace considering they were on the same tires and no mid or late race safety cars to bunch up the pack. Even had a long run with Perez and Hamilton lapping together about 3.5 seconds apart and matching laptimes.

Significant pace advantage over the Renaults, Perez hunted both down cleanly and then just cruised away, bodes well for the constructors battle.
I wonder if they are having regrets on signing Vettel?
Nah, from a marketing perspective it will be great for a rebranded Aston Martin team to have a 4-time world champion in the car; if nothing else, it legitimizes their operation.

And maybe Vettel’s presence will ignite something in Stroll, too.

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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zeph wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:53 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:09 pm
Raleigh wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:21 pm
Fantastic race pace today, Perez in the older spec car only 30 seconds down the road from Bottas over a clean race distance. Even better pace against Hamilton, 8 seconds down (net 18 seconds even if Hamilton had no penalty), amazing pace considering they were on the same tires and no mid or late race safety cars to bunch up the pack. Even had a long run with Perez and Hamilton lapping together about 3.5 seconds apart and matching laptimes.

Significant pace advantage over the Renaults, Perez hunted both down cleanly and then just cruised away, bodes well for the constructors battle.
I wonder if they are having regrets on signing Vettel?
Nah, from a marketing perspective it will be great for a rebranded Aston Martin team to have a 4-time world champion in the car; if nothing else, it legitimizes their operation.

And maybe Vettel’s presence will ignite something in Stroll, too.
I think Stroll is doing fine chasing Perez and will develop into a very good driver anyway. Not necessarily a top driver or world champion, but they are rare.

No, My concern is if they would have more points at the season end with Perez and Stroll than with Seb and Stroll.
I like Seb, or at least I did, but he is having a dismal year so far, and I wonder how this is going to affect him in future.

What would happen next year in a Seb v Sainz or Seb v Leclerc head to head?
H may have 'an axe to grind' with ferrari after how he may feel he has been treated this year, plus feel a need to prove himself v Leclerc with the fetters off.
And also 'prove a point' v Sains, 'I could have done better than him if I was not knobbled' sort of thing.

There have been a couple of occasions where he has let the red most get to him, like running on to Hamilton (don't go there, lets just call it that for the chat,even if you disagree :mrgreen: )
He also has an unfortunate reputation for taking his team mate out too.

An on form Seb with his head in the right place and a car he likes is a race winner, if maybe not a championship winner, but is Seb of today, or next year that Seb?
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

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Racer X
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:09 pm
Raleigh wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:21 pm
Fantastic race pace today, Perez in the older spec car only 30 seconds down the road from Bottas over a clean race distance. Even better pace against Hamilton, 8 seconds down (net 18 seconds even if Hamilton had no penalty), amazing pace considering they were on the same tires and no mid or late race safety cars to bunch up the pack. Even had a long run with Perez and Hamilton lapping together about 3.5 seconds apart and matching laptimes.

Significant pace advantage over the Renaults, Perez hunted both down cleanly and then just cruised away, bodes well for the constructors battle.
I wonder if they are having regrets on signing Vettel?
I don't thinks I think Aston Martin cares more about image. I also think Lawrence really does think Vettel can do more in the same car.

So they are thinking Vettel Is better regardless.


However I hope other teams are watching how fast and consistent Perez is.

I can't help but wonder about Perez and Redbull. If he was driving for them that would secure them 2nd place in the Championship and more consistent results.
SENNA

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Morteza
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

NAPI10
NAPI10
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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That's good news for AM F1 team ; Vettel will highly motivated for the betterment of team.

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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NAPI10 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:50 pm
That's good news for AM F1 team ; Vettel will highly motivated for the betterment of team.
I wonder what sort of scale? Just 'some' cos he thinks its a good investment. or enough to be management?
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

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adrianjordan
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Be ironic if he gets a Valkrie lol
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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I think Vettel promoting Aston Martin as a brand is an interesting aquisition for AM, and surely will bring more exposure to their 'intended' market compared to Perez.
Simply put, I think AM is able to sell much more AM in Europe through Vettel, than in Latin America through Perez.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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raymondu999
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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adrianjordan wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:11 am
Be ironic if he gets a Valkrie lol
How so? Doesnt the Valkyrie IP follow AM rather than RB?
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raymondu999
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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I’m curious what people here think.

Andy Green has, to my knowledge, never worked in a top team. Team Silverstone, aka Jordan/Force India, however, has a history of punching heavier than their budget.

It’s one thing to be given more resources, with the new AM F1 factory, etc. But it’s another thing again to put those resources into the proper usage. I think with the new factory/facilities Aston will have the resources of a top team. But how will a tech team that has traditionally not had that level of resource — and correspondingly not produced top cars in the past — adapt to having to design top cars? What’s going to stop them, for lack of a smoother way of saying, become into another “Ferrari” where they definitely have the resources to compete at the front - but just underdeliver on their budget?
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