[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[holeindalip]

Think of it in terms of oil consumption. The modes that will be used during the race cannot result in exceeding the allowed oil consumption. It's possible Mercedes would go over if they used their quali mode during the race. Instead, the oil consumed during the race needs to be proportional to the oil spent during quali. In essence, teams will need to set oil consumption per lap in order to squeeze every drop of performance out in both sessions while not exceeding the limits.

Funniest post ive seen all year....

[GhostF1]

That will be interesting to see how all PU deal with it...

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertFabreg ... 7453403139

Well especially Honda as they seem to use the high performance mode a lot during the race. But I guess now it will be tuned a bit back and used for the whole race.
Anyways going to be interesting, there is no setting now to tune the engine back for fuel preservation or engine, so drivers to have to adjust their driving now to save fuel or the engine.

Actually, this could benefit Honda. They have a top tier race engine. They can run high modes for a longer period than competitiors. They just lack an ultimate qualifying mode. So if they're all forced to use the mode they'll use in race, this could bring Honda to the front.

[etusch]

What are qualifying modes?
Qualifying modes make available extra engine revs and the ability to run without harvesting power and diverting it to the battery, thereby allowing maximum deployment of energy recovered via the two energy recovery systems. These modes also typically run more aggressive ignition timing and fuel mixture.

By contrast, a standard race mode will allow adequate harvesting to keep the battery supplied with energy that can be deployed through the lap – without draining the battery and thereby compromising the following lap. It will also typically run lower maximum revs than the qualifying mode and a setting of ignition timing that keeps the valves and piston crowns at a safer temperature.
Typically there are several – up to nine – modes in between the two extremes. This is all about trading off performance with engine life, reliability and fuel consumption.


So what’s the proposed change?
Previously the qualifying and overtake modes would have a time limit per event imposed upon them by the engine manufacturer, so as to keep the power unit within its usage limit. A letter sent to the teams at Barcelona suggests that the subsequent Technical Directive will require the power unit to be run in the same single mode during qualifying and race. This has yet to be confirmed by the Technical Directive itself.

Why is this rule being implemented now - and what impact will it have?
To assist policing. The FIA has to police a number of power unit parameters through very detailed data analysis, and it is felt that this directive will help them achieve that – and have more confidence of power unit legality as a result. Of course, a consequence of the move would be to clip the wings of the power unit which shows the biggest power boost between normal and qualifying modes. At this point that's believed to be Mercedes, with Ferrari showing the least difference between the two modes. Renault and Honda are quite similar in between those two extremes.

The move would save expensive development programmes for Honda, Renault and Ferrari at a time when the FIA is very actively trying to close down cost drivers. As a downside, it would reduce the differences in power at any given moment between two dicing cars. Often the passing we see in hybrid F1 era comes from one driver forcing another to use up his energy store defensively, then having none left as the attacking driver deploys.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... UFncL.html

[Datco]

That will be interesting to see how all PU deal with it...

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertFabreg ... 7453403139

Well especially Honda as they seem to use the high performance mode a lot during the race. But I guess now it will be tuned a bit back and used for the whole race.
Anyways going to be interesting, there is no setting now to tune the engine back for fuel preservation or engine, so drivers to have to adjust their driving now to save fuel or the engine.

Actually, this could benefit Honda. They have a top tier race engine. They can run high modes for a longer period than competitiors. They just lack an ultimate qualifying mode. So if they're all forced to use the mode they'll use in race, this could bring Honda to the front.

I don't think it would. Merc simply have a stronger PU, they have just been controlling races, bar the last one. They will just spread the life they won't be using in quali into race modes.
But I do think it will make quali close and this should make racing better as they will be locked into a race mode like all other Parc feme rules.
Don't be suprised if it actually gives give Merc the edge as they may have the best simulations tools.

[IvailoStefanovBG]

I dont think so. Actually my opinion is that by introducing that directive FIA tries to avoid new "settlement" story - this time with Mercedes. I think their qualy mode is illegal. Mercedes have the best PU - chassie combination, but they have the strongest Party mode and i can not agree that everything comes from just trading performance and reliability. This was and is their main advantage for hybrid era. They setup and construct their car with the idea of starting from front row.. This TD will put a large pinch of salt in the wound...and I`m eager to read what Wolff will say about this...

[Pany]

I dont think so. Actually my opinion is that by introducing that directive FIA tries to avoid new "settlement" story - this time with Mercedes. I think their qualy mode is illegal. Mercedes have the best PU - chassie combination, but they have the strongest Party mode and i can not agree that everything comes from just trading performance and reliability. This was and is their main advantage for hybrid era. They setup and construct their car with the idea of starting from front row.. This TD will put a large pinch of salt in the wound...and I`m eager to read what Wolff will say about this...

totally agree with you

[Sieper]

Well, I also think the large jump by merc power this year is very suspect. A few things make me say that.

1 the trendline of RBR coming closer Each year, to the point of achieving poles on merit last year. Suddenly broken and back to 2016 gaps.
2 Honda being confident, then stating Mercedes might much bigger gains than expected and even going as far as publicly stating they don’t know how they did it.
3 mercedes oil puffs on traction AND Toto stating when asked not to know where that is coming from. Not even an excuse, simply, don’t know. How can you not know. Or why are you willing to tell.

[basti313]

Well, I also think the large jump by merc power this year is very suspect. A few things make me say that.

1 the trendline of RBR coming closer Each year, to the point of achieving poles on merit last year. Suddenly broken and back to 2016 gaps.
2 Honda being confident, then stating Mercedes might much bigger gains than expected and even going as far as publicly stating they don’t know how they did it.
3 mercedes oil puffs on traction AND Toto stating when asked not to know where that is coming from. Not even an excuse, simply, don’t know. How can you not know. Or why are you willing to tell.

Absolutely. Excellent post.

My general suspicion is that they turned down the engine last year and used less of their "tricks". Like this the Ferrari looked mighty and everyone was fighting for getting the Ferrari tricks banned. Allison knows the tricks, they were for sure already present when he was TD. So they could actively fight the tricks.
Now they unleashed again the engine, but I fear too much.This year is fighting Merc tricks and if everything runs fine the engines will be leveled next year, which is a good starting point for the rule change in 2022.

[holeindalip]

Yes, Mercedes were turned down last year for their cooling issues, and now this year that is fixed so they are at full power, coupled with upgrades over the winter and new fuel you have a double whammy. Mercedes had the target of Ferrari power they were trying to hit, and the technical directives hit Honda and Ferrari. If you look at the speeds the gap to the midfield stayed the same meaning they took a step of what they normally take, just red bull and Ferrari were nowhere at the start of the season.

There’s no reason to suspect the td’s just hit Honda and Ferrari harder than the mercs...


The puffs of smoke are from overfilling the oil tanks that’s why it’s only at the start of a session or race.

[Sieper]

Yes, Mercedes were turned down last year for their cooling issues, and now this year that is fixed so they are at full power, coupled with upgrades over the winter and new fuel you have a double whammy. Mercedes had the target of Ferrari power they were trying to hit, and the technical directives hit Honda and Ferrari. If you look at the speeds the gap to the midfield stayed the same meaning they took a step of what they normally take, just red bull and Ferrari were nowhere at the start of the season.

There’s no reason to suspect the td’s just hit Honda and Ferrari harder than the mercs...


The puffs of smoke are from overfilling the oil tanks that’s why it’s only at the start of a session or race.

That is not what Toto said. Toto said, we don’t know.

Overfilling an oil tank. In modern F1 car where everything is know. Not a chance that is the cause of the puffs.

What I think. You have an allowance of 0,3 liter oil per 100km. Put an anti knock additive in the oil and use the excess oil you are allowed to burn off at moments you increase the turbo pressure. That way knock is prevented at the moments it really counts. Qualy laps when accelerating out of corners and first laps of the race to open DRS and pit window.

[holeindalip]

Yes, Mercedes were turned down last year for their cooling issues, and now this year that is fixed so they are at full power, coupled with upgrades over the winter and new fuel you have a double whammy. Mercedes had the target of Ferrari power they were trying to hit, and the technical directives hit Honda and Ferrari. If you look at the speeds the gap to the midfield stayed the same meaning they took a step of what they normally take, just red bull and Ferrari were nowhere at the start of the season.

There’s no reason to suspect the td’s just hit Honda and Ferrari harder than the mercs...


The puffs of smoke are from overfilling the oil tanks that’s why it’s only at the start of a session or race.

That is not what Toto said. Toto said, we don’t know.

Overfilling an oil tank. In modern F1 car where everything is know. Not a chance that is the cause of the puffs.

What I think. You have an allowance of 0,3 liter oil per 100km. Put an anti knock additive in the oil and use the excess oil you are allowed to burn off at moments you increase the turbo pressure. That way knock is prevented at the moments it really counts. Qualy laps when accelerating out of corners and first laps of the race to open DRS and pit window.

It’s in the merc engine thread, they’ve closed all the oil burning tricks.

[etusch]

The puffs of smoke are from overfilling the oil tanks that’s why it’s only at the start of a session or race.

I think I saw it fume at 33th lap of a race at some video shared here but I could not found it back.
I think you mean with that comment that it puff starts at start of burning session

[Revs84]

Yes, Mercedes were turned down last year for their cooling issues, and now this year that is fixed so they are at full power, coupled with upgrades over the winter and new fuel you have a double whammy. Mercedes had the target of Ferrari power they were trying to hit, and the technical directives hit Honda and Ferrari. If you look at the speeds the gap to the midfield stayed the same meaning they took a step of what they normally take, just red bull and Ferrari were nowhere at the start of the season.

There’s no reason to suspect the td’s just hit Honda and Ferrari harder than the mercs...


The puffs of smoke are from overfilling the oil tanks that’s why it’s only at the start of a session or race.

How exactly did you arrive to the conclusion that Honda were hit by the TDs?

[holeindalip]

How did you guys come to the conclusion the mercs are cheating/ burning oil?

[etusch]

your claim of cars slowed by regulations misses Alpha Tauri