[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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I think that is exactly the reason Alex has the credit. Agreed. And imho he has very good racecraft so “just” needs to find more pace.

I do think RBR/Honda is really getting Closer (unless this problem is a major one). But men does it hurt. I was quietly expecting Max to win this.
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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Wouter wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:13 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:08 pm
This one is on Honda and I think they know it. On to the next one, if I know Honda, not only will they sort this out but will improve.
Didn't they say the same thing last week? We will sort this out en will improve? #-o
I am a big Honda fan, but I wonder what they are doing right now.
Why didn't Max get a new PU for this weekend as a precaution?
Then they would have had the time to check everything about this engine.
I think he could have won the race today. :(
Me too. Honda (RBR management?) didn’t want to use new parts.
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etusch
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Sieper wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:19 pm
I think that is exactly the reason Alex has the credit. Agreed. And imho he has very good racecraft so “just” needs to find more pace.

I do think RBR/Honda is really getting Closer (unless this problem is a major one). But men does it hurt. I was quietly expecting Max to win this.
I also expecting win but ham put 4 sec to bottas when he pushed in two laps. I am not sure now. I still think if Marshalls push Verstappen he can try and at least he can go box himself.

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proteus
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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TNTHead wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:03 pm
proteus wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:08 pm
Likely a battery sensor went wonky, though there was no charge and kicked the MGU-K into regen.

This one is on Honda and I think they know it. On to the next one, if I know Honda, not only will they sort this out but will improve.

Sochi is a difficult track for Honda, so hopefully they can bounce back. The work they did on the FW has paid off, now they can produce some new bits downstream that work with the new development. Hopefully have it ready for the next race.

Unless Verstappen starts winning everything from here on out, the championship is as good as over.

Only thing left is to make sure they're in a better position to start next year.
Listening to Max and his radio transmitions for few races now, it sounds more or less the same as he ranted over Renault power, and if we draw the line the results arent any better either. Only positive is they are getting these engines for free.
I think it is fair to say that any championship aspirations by RB for this season are gone after this race. How can you be a contender when you have a reliability rate of only 66%? I know it is highly advanced and complicated technology, so you have to have thousands of things right to get it working, but still the front runners have a reliability of 100%.First we had unstable aero in low DF trim, and now this.

I really dont see how Max can be champion with RB, at least not 'till 2022. Come 2022 RB needs to have a sizeable aero advantage, otherwise it will still be playing catch up. I really wonder if RB will be able to keep Max, as an outsider I think they need to turn around some processes which seem to happen over and over again. They are a great team, but this cant happen twice if you are serious about challenging Mercedes.

On the other hand Albon showed great skills and also pace with the car, so not all is lost. Glad for him to have his first podium. As a person I think he is may be a better fit than Gasly, being a bit more mature and as declared by the team good in his feedback.
Max came to a dead end anyway. As long as Hamilton stays at Mercedes or INEOS, the doors are shut and the other only good option is Ferrari, but they have very talented Charles so another doors shut. While Lewis will be collecting easy wins race by race, both Max and Charles will be at loss throwing away their careers, even though they are more then capable to fight Lewis in equal machines.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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etusch wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:25 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:19 pm
I think that is exactly the reason Alex has the credit. Agreed. And imho he has very good racecraft so “just” needs to find more pace.

I do think RBR/Honda is really getting Closer (unless this problem is a major one). But men does it hurt. I was quietly expecting Max to win this.
I also expecting win but ham put 4 sec to bottas when he pushed in two laps. I am not sure now. I still think if Marshalls push Verstappen he can try and at least he can go box himself.
That 18.8 was showboating. It gave the fastest lap and it helps to intimidate. Actually, now that higher power modes cannot be switched on anymore at will it is much clearer to see who is using the battery. It takes 2, maybe 3 laps to reload after you dump it in one lap. You could clearly see when someone was using it to chase or fend off.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

nzjrs
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Sieper wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:34 pm
. Actually, now that higher power modes cannot be switched on anymore at will it is much clearer to see who is using the battery. It takes 2, maybe 3 laps to reload after you dump it in one lap. You could clearly see when someone was using it to chase or fend off.
Exactly yeah. I like the new regulation primarily because I belive it lets PU manufacturers derive a better estimate of the true performance of their competitors.

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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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proteus wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:27 pm
TNTHead wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:03 pm
proteus wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm


Listening to Max and his radio transmitions for few races now, it sounds more or less the same as he ranted over Renault power, and if we draw the line the results arent any better either. Only positive is they are getting these engines for free.
I think it is fair to say that any championship aspirations by RB for this season are gone after this race. How can you be a contender when you have a reliability rate of only 66%? I know it is highly advanced and complicated technology, so you have to have thousands of things right to get it working, but still the front runners have a reliability of 100%.First we had unstable aero in low DF trim, and now this.

I really dont see how Max can be champion with RB, at least not 'till 2022. Come 2022 RB needs to have a sizeable aero advantage, otherwise it will still be playing catch up. I really wonder if RB will be able to keep Max, as an outsider I think they need to turn around some processes which seem to happen over and over again. They are a great team, but this cant happen twice if you are serious about challenging Mercedes.

On the other hand Albon showed great skills and also pace with the car, so not all is lost. Glad for him to have his first podium. As a person I think he is may be a better fit than Gasly, being a bit more mature and as declared by the team good in his feedback.
Max came to a dead end anyway. As long as Hamilton stays at Mercedes or INEOS, the doors are shut and the other only good option is Ferrari, but they have very talented Charles so another doors shut. While Lewis will be collecting easy wins race by race, both Max and Charles will be at loss throwing away their careers, even though they are more then capable to fight Lewis in equal machines.
RBR Honda have the even more talented Max. Not sure how much Ineos is willing to spend but likely the budget cap was one of the reasons daimler is contemplating selling the team off. You can’t just spend your way to victory anymore. Both Honda and Merc, and yes also Renault or thinking hard how much spenditure they can make on racing.
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SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Wouter wrote:
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:08 pm
This one is on Honda and I think they know it. On to the next one, if I know Honda, not only will they sort this out but will improve.
Didn't they say the same thing last week? We will sort this out en will improve? #-o
I am a big Honda fan, but I wonder what they are doing right now.
Why didn't Max get a new PU for this weekend as a precaution?
Then they would have had the time to check everything about this engine.
I think he could have won the race today. :(
In Honda’s credit, with such a compressed season and back to back races, it will be extremely hard to not only find the issues, but also fix them from one race to the next


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etusch
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:43 pm
Wouter wrote:
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:08 pm
This one is on Honda and I think they know it. On to the next one, if I know Honda, not only will they sort this out but will improve.
Didn't they say the same thing last week? We will sort this out en will improve? #-o
I am a big Honda fan, but I wonder what they are doing right now.
Why didn't Max get a new PU for this weekend as a precaution?
Then they would have had the time to check everything about this engine.
I think he could have won the race today. :(
In Honda’s credit, with such a compressed season and back to back races, it will be extremely hard to not only find the issues, but also fix them from one race to the next
YOu are right. I think only wrong thing with them that they are too cautious about reliability. Make higher mode and use more engine. After all wdc is already gone even for 2021 too.

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Marti_EF3
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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What I'm worried about, it's that Max frustration is reaching it's limits. And justified or not, I don't want to revive again another "Alonso rampage" versus Honda. And it seems it's not far away if this PU gremlings can't be sorted quickly... :(

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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Depends on the perspective. Which still seems good. Max is allowed to be angry when his car lets him down. I don’t think he said anything Too grievous. Post race he has been very civil.
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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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TNTHead wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:03 pm
proteus wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:08 pm
Likely a battery sensor went wonky, though there was no charge and kicked the MGU-K into regen.

This one is on Honda and I think they know it. On to the next one, if I know Honda, not only will they sort this out but will improve.

Sochi is a difficult track for Honda, so hopefully they can bounce back. The work they did on the FW has paid off, now they can produce some new bits downstream that work with the new development. Hopefully have it ready for the next race.

Unless Verstappen starts winning everything from here on out, the championship is as good as over.

Only thing left is to make sure they're in a better position to start next year.
Listening to Max and his radio transmitions for few races now, it sounds more or less the same as he ranted over Renault power, and if we draw the line the results arent any better either. Only positive is they are getting these engines for free.
I think it is fair to say that any championship aspirations by RB for this season are gone after this race. How can you be a contender when you have a reliability rate of only 66%? I know it is highly advanced and complicated technology, so you have to have thousands of things right to get it working, but still the front runners have a reliability of 100%.First we had unstable aero in low DF trim, and now this.

I really dont see how Max can be champion with RB, at least not 'till 2022. Come 2022 RB needs to have a sizeable aero advantage, otherwise it will still be playing catch up. I really wonder if RB will be able to keep Max, as an outsider I think they need to turn around some processes which seem to happen over and over again. They are a great team, but this cant happen twice if you are serious about challenging Mercedes.

On the other hand Albon showed great skills and also pace with the car, so not all is lost. Glad for him to have his first podium. As a person I think he is may be a better fit than Gasly, being a bit more mature and as declared by the team good in his feedback.
He can be champion next year, this year it's looking more and more unlikely. Mercedes is too fast and because they don't have to push they can be very consistent, making very little mistakes. I think that Red Bull can, and should try to close the gap, this year, focus on fixing the chassis issues so they can focus on the bargeboards and the diffuser to claw back any downforce lost. The car is good and if it gets sorted out plus whatever Honda can conjure on the off season, with a normal season.

Today was a very disappointing day, no doubt about it, but dwelling on it won't change the future. Bouncing back stronger is a quality of champions.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

ispano6
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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When 3 other cars use the same power units and software and don't suffer the same issues something doesn't add up. Let's wait and see what they discover and whether or not they will reveal what is truly behind the issues.

ispano6
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Juzh wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:38 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:13 pm
If the settings in these cars can be altered remotely by pit wall
they cant be, not per rules anyway
If you didn't know Honda's global operations were cyber attacked after a network vulnerability breach. Announced in June of this year.
We don't know the extent to which systems were compromised or are still compromised, but my idea isn't just made up conspiracy theories.

https://www.cbronline.com/news/honda-hacked-data-breach
The £22 billion by market capitalisation automotive giant has admitted that production, sales and development activities are all hit.

“We can also confirm that there is no information breach at this point in time. Work is being undertaken to minimize the impact and to restore full functionality of production, sales and development activities. At this point, we see minimal business impact”.
What were the hackers after if there was "minimal business impact"?
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:50 pm

I know that conspiracy theories are abundant in this forum... But... You took the lead with that one!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
That ransomware is known as SNAKE. Bleeping Computer managed to contact the operator of the ransomware who neither denied nor admitted being behind the Honda cyber attack. the SNAKE operators said that it would “not share details about the attack in order to allow the target some deniability.”

GhostF1
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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mem wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:15 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:21 pm

Ahh, said by someone who merely reads the results page and totally ignores actual happenings within the sport, the team, the car etc.
well its 9-0 in qualy for Max and its first podium for Albon after 19 races in RBR and the RB16 is the second best car on the grid how about that ?

He has time and again proven he has outstanding racecraft when given a car that isn't wayward. He proved it last year and is now starting to prove it again as the team fix the issues with the car.
prove what ? just few weeks ago he was breaking down and crying after the race on the radio.

People expect a Max Verstappen/Lewis Hamilton style driver to just appear out of nowhere and be placed in car 2 and anything less is totally unacceptable. It's pretty ridiculous. And the answer is not changing drivers every 3 months thinking that will solve it. You need stability in the team, especially when dealing with a car that is arguably a stagnant model that hasn't improved over last year's car. One of Alex's strengths is feedback and steering the cars development, as Christian just emphasised after the race.
yeah thats why Hornor called perez asking about his plans


Anyway, he's clearly making improvements and has been on a pretty steep upward trend over the last few races. That's a good path to be on.
in Monza finished 14 (broken floor) ,in Belgium he finished sixth behind the 2 Renault , in Spain finished eighth behind 2 RP one Mclaren and one Ferrari , in silver stone 2 finished fifth behind a Ferrari , in silverstone 1 he finished eighth behind one Ferrari 2 Renault one Mclaren and one Alpha Tauri

As for hanging behind the RP and the Renault... They literally just said after the race they were biding their time and saving the tyres to go long on the soft and kept their distance to preserve the tyres. Standard race practice. We can clearly see when tyre saving is not an issue he can sail past as seen in the final restart. How about we don't twist and talk nonsense to fit a negative agenda.
i have no agenda and couldn't care less you won't prevent me from saying my own opinion
i really didn't want to say that specially after his first podium but you asked for it.
I'm not preventing you from saying your own opinion lol, where did you get that? I'm saying mine, it's a forum for discussion.

I had a reply, but I've deleted it, I can't be bothered for the angst for this discussion to just go nowhere anyway.

You have yours, I have mine. Let's leave it at that regarding Albon/Gasly.
Last edited by GhostF1 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.