[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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mem
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Wouter wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:25 am
The DNFs are due to a fault in the ECU. That is a part coming from McLaren Applied. So thats no fault of Honda.
sauce?

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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To me, but I do not run Honda, a 'change everything and start from the back of the grid' is preferable to a DNF or even a race in limp mode.
Max with a new 'everything' starting from the back of the grid will be in the top 6 by tyre swap time, and being realistic, he is only likely to be aiming for 3rd anyway.
He can win, but it wll be due to unusual events, and one of those infront of him is possibly the other Honda car.

Most people would look at a result and think, that's good, start last and carve his way to 3 rd, well done Honda and RBR and Max and all concerned look good.
Hardly any will consider why he started from the back.
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Wouter
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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mem wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:47 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:25 am
The DNFs are due to a fault in the ECU. That is a part coming from McLaren Applied. So thats no fault of Honda.
sauce?
Yes, thank you. I like Heinz tomato ketchup, garlic and curry sauce. Or do you mean the source? :wink:

From several Honda insiders. I also believe it was mentioned here elsewhere on the forum.

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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Red Bull adviser Helmut Marko says Honda has made progress but Mercedes is still outperforming the Japanese manufacturer: "Honda has made progress, but Mercedes is still superior in terms of batteries."

"We have to improve now. Honda has replaced a number of engineers, so maybe that's why the unexpected problems arose."

Currently, Honda has only committed to Formula 1 for the 2021 season, and some think the Japanese engine manufacturer will pull out.

"The decision should be made in early October," admitted Marko.

If Honda does leave, it could lead to an exit clause in Verstappen's contract, which is believed to guarantee a factory engine. Marko gives a hint: "Actually, Max has a permanent contract for 2021. We are well aware that we have to offer him a competitive bike."
So next month decision about the future.
I think Red Bull have to give more space to Honda as well, there is no visibility for Honda, it is barely written on the car, if they want long term relation with Honda

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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Aston Martin leaves,that gives plenty of opportunity to make Honda the title sponsor.
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Jambier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:52 pm
Aston Martin leaves,that gives plenty of opportunity to make Honda the title sponsor.
That's exactly what I thought , rear wing with Honda on it would make sens 8)

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mem
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Wouter wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:45 pm
Yes, thank you. I like Heinz tomato ketchup, garlic and curry sauce. Or do you mean the source? :wink:

From several Honda insiders. I also believe it was mentioned here elsewhere on the forum.
thanks
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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Jambier wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:31 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:52 pm
Aston Martin leaves,that gives plenty of opportunity to make Honda the title sponsor.
That's exactly what I thought , rear wing with Honda on it would make sens 8)
Jep! I think it will happen. I read Honda decides in October if they stay after 2021 as well. Hopefully the current issues can be resolved. They come at an extremely bad time.
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Wouter wrote:
Mudflap wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:15 am
etusch wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:13 am
they give importance to reliability maybe more than needed. probably because of McLaren years and because of why Redbull had problems with Renault.
They were aiming mercedes level this year if not first part of season, with spec 2.0. But mercedes came up more performance. Infact there is nothing wrong there but unexpected development of a rival.
.
2 DNFs say you are wrong
The DNFs are due to a fault in the ECU. That is a part coming from McLaren Applied. So thats no fault of Honda.
Is there proof that the problem is with the ECU? Also, how is it that every team in the grid uses the exact same ECU but only Max seems to be having problems with it?... I don’t think is an ECU problem.


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Wouter
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:47 pm
Wouter wrote:
The DNFs are due to a fault in the ECU. That is a part coming from McLaren Applied. So thats no fault of Honda.
Is there proof that the problem is with the ECU? Also, how is it that every team in the grid uses the exact same ECU but only Max seems to be having problems with it?...
I don’t think is an ECU problem.


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What do you think the problem is?

Cassius
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Interesting how many people here claim they have sources within Honda.

I am not yet convinced it was the ECU, although Leclerc in Spain had an ECU issue as well. So it does not mean the ECU never breaks down.

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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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We are still waiting for a statement by Honda about the cause, so we'll have to wait for that. Anything else is just to have a nice convesation about thing are, should be or will be 8).

It could be that the ECU is packaged in an area where temperatures are too high for the circuit board when standing at the grid for too long. In that case too less cooling is the initiator for the fail mechanism.
Last edited by TNTHead on Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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etusch
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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comparing with moto gp I can say that Honda can be better immidiately if they use their own ECU.

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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All signs point to a communication issue between the control electronics and the ECU. Physically there's nothing wrong with the CE or the ECU, both test out okay. You have to remember what the ECU does, it is a voltage regulator and sensor. All the wires that go to the ECU provide a voltage reading that the ECU reads against a table. External sensors to the ECU can give bad readings to the ECU, the CE also has a ECU within it. All these systems have to communicate, if communication breaks down, then we get issues like Max's.

So resolving the issue is a little tricky. Anyone that's tried to diagnose electrical gremlins on a car knows how difficult it can be. A wire near a heat source can have it's resistance and by extension it's values changed. Most mechanics nowadays won't even waste their time, it's easier and more cost effective to just throw on a new wiring harness.

Perhaps it wasn't feasible to change out the wiring harness between Italy and Mugello because of logistical constraints.

When Honda does fix this, they'll over deliver, not only will the issue not happen again but they'll lighten the wiring harness by 30 grams.
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm
All signs point to a communication issue between the control electronics and the ECU. Physically there's nothing wrong with the CE or the ECU, both test out okay. You have to remember what the ECU does, it is a voltage regulator and sensor. All the wires that go to the ECU provide a voltage reading that the ECU reads against a table. External sensors to the ECU can give bad readings to the ECU, the CE also has a ECU within it. All these systems have to communicate, if communication breaks down, then we get issues like Max's.

So resolving the issue is a little tricky. Anyone that's tried to diagnose electrical gremlins on a car knows how difficult it can be. A wire near a heat source can have it's resistance and by extension it's values changed. Most mechanics nowadays won't even waste their time, it's easier and more cost effective to just throw on a new wiring harness.

Perhaps it wasn't feasible to change out the wiring harness between Italy and Mugello because of logistical constraints.
You mean that there is CAN bus network or something like that? That can indeed be very sensitive to oxidation, vibrations etc. and can give al sorts of vague errors. But this can be overcome by design.