[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Just_a_fan
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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diffuser wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:39 pm
Anyways, it's near imposible to beat merc with how, up until now, the way they outspend everyone.
Well Ferrari's total budget is up there with/greater than Merc's and they aren't doing so well either, so budget alone isn't the answer. And let's not forget that part of Merc's large budget, along with Ferrari's, is the development and production of the PU - something RedBull doesn't have to spend on because Honda does it for them.
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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:26 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:39 pm
Anyways, it's near imposible to beat merc with how, up until now, the way they outspend everyone.
Well Ferrari's total budget is up there with/greater than Merc's and they aren't doing so well either, so budget alone isn't the answer. And let's not forget that part of Merc's large budget, along with Ferrari's, is the development and production of the PU - something RedBull doesn't have to spend on because Honda does it for them.
Yeah well they spent thier money on cheating but they were beating everyone else and Merc too, till they got caught ! Obviously now thier PU power has gone backwards about 4 years. Let's just call that one "extenuating circumstances".

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JordanMugen
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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rogazilla wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:20 pm
Since this is technical forum. Let's look at this and see if we can discuss this logically. Here is some of my observation and try to see what's happening. First I don't think this is a fundamental design issue. Why? There are 4 Honda PUs, while I am not fully understand the new TD but supposedly all 4 cars has to have the same settings. That suggest, this is not a fundamental design weakness but rather a weak component, a faulty component, maybe there is trickle down consequences but to be screaming as if Honda PU has a problem, I am not sold. I do agree that Honda needs to find the root cause and add quality control over the process. I would chalk this up the same with other manufacturers where the car couldn't be started or shut down on track and so on. I don't think these are fundamental design issue anymore.
Just put a new unit in (take the penalty) and be done with it, I say. :) Some minute fault somewhere, if Verstappen's PU were to fail again in Sochi GP that would be too much and too embarrassing.

After all, the so-called benchmark Mercedes-Benz unit had a no-start for Hulkenberg. That could have easily been Hamilton with a unit that wouldn't start missing a Grand Prix.

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etusch
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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JordanMugen wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:54 am
rogazilla wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:20 pm
Since this is technical forum. Let's look at this and see if we can discuss this logically. Here is some of my observation and try to see what's happening. First I don't think this is a fundamental design issue. Why? There are 4 Honda PUs, while I am not fully understand the new TD but supposedly all 4 cars has to have the same settings. That suggest, this is not a fundamental design weakness but rather a weak component, a faulty component, maybe there is trickle down consequences but to be screaming as if Honda PU has a problem, I am not sold. I do agree that Honda needs to find the root cause and add quality control over the process. I would chalk this up the same with other manufacturers where the car couldn't be started or shut down on track and so on. I don't think these are fundamental design issue anymore.
Just put a new unit in (take the penalty) and be done with it, I say. :) Some minute fault somewhere, if Verstappen's PU were to fail again in Sochi GP that would be too much and too embarrassing.

After all, the so-called benchmark Mercedes-Benz unit had a no-start for Hulkenberg. That could have easily been Hamilton with a unit that wouldn't start missing a Grand Prix.
I also say that, even if they found the issue and make it work, still they have to drop it from being racing engine but they can use it for fp sessions as hard as possible.

mafeotul
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Shocked really by the amount that want Honda to fail, given that we are scarce on the engine supplier side of things in F1 at the minute. Honda did confirm they had an issue with Max's Pu. I am struggling to understand any of the hate fuelled arguments here. Hey, I am a Mercedes follower ( since the McLaren days with Mika ) and seeing the Japanese manufacturer with two wins this season makes me happy that we have some competition. Anyway, I would love to know the difference between Renault and Honda in terms of peak power for the last two seasons. I am curious if Redbull would have had more wins with it.

Thunder18
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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They'd have had more retirements with Tag too. Also RBR would've had more victories last year if it wasn't for Ferrari cheating.

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markc
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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mafeotul wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:33 am
Shocked really by the amount that want Honda to fail, given that we are scarce on the engine supplier side of things in F1 at the minute. Honda did confirm they had an issue with Max's Pu. I am struggling to understand any of the hate fuelled arguments here. Hey, I am a Mercedes follower ( since the McLaren days with Mika ) and seeing the Japanese manufacturer with two wins this season makes me happy that we have some competition. Anyway, I would love to know the difference between Renault and Honda in terms of peak power for the last two seasons. I am curious if Redbull would have had more wins with it.
Over 2 teams as well... good for Honda, I say.

mafeotul
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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markc wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:35 am
mafeotul wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:33 am
Shocked really by the amount that want Honda to fail, given that we are scarce on the engine supplier side of things in F1 at the minute. Honda did confirm they had an issue with Max's Pu. I am struggling to understand any of the hate fuelled arguments here. Hey, I am a Mercedes follower ( since the McLaren days with Mika ) and seeing the Japanese manufacturer with two wins this season makes me happy that we have some competition. Anyway, I would love to know the difference between Renault and Honda in terms of peak power for the last two seasons. I am curious if Redbull would have had more wins with it.
Over 2 teams as well... good for Honda, I say.
To think it's year two with a top team, and looking at Ferrari's woes having to develop a PU that quickly, I'd say they did an absolute tremendous job, given they won races straight of the back. Curious to see how much they lost with the new regulations in regards to Qualifying modes.

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Marti_EF3
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Interesting news...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alph ... t/4872594/
AlphaTauri boosted by move to Red Bull wind tunnel

Christian Horner expects that AlphaTauri's move to Red Bull's wind tunnel in 2021 will be a significant boost for the Italian team.
AlphaTauri currently uses its own tunnel in Bicester, and is the last F1 team still operating with a 50% scale model rather than the 60% specification used by all of its rivals.



Over 100 AlphaTauri UK-based staff currently work on the team's aero programme.

Restrictions on wind tunnel usage that come into force next year – when teams will be switching their aero R&D programmes to the new 2022 regulations – will free up capacity in Red Bull's tunnel in Bedford that will allow AlphaTauri to use it as well.

Earlier this year AlphaTauri technical director Jody Egginton suggested that the move was being discussed, and it has now been confirmed.

Horner indicated on Friday that he now sees AlphaTauri as a "sister team rather than a junior team", and stressed that the sharing of the tunnel is another step in that process.

"Obviously AlphaTauri is a rebranded team for this year," said Horner. "I think their aspirations are beyond where Toro Rosso's were.


"We have a synergy project within the regulations. For example the sharing of the wind tunnel will happen for the first time next year, which makes complete sense from a financial perspective. That's what I was referring too.

"The tools that we are using, the model size, AlphaTauri will be utilising the same equipment, the same tunnel, and of course that will hopefully be helpful to them in their development, particularly with the '22 car being such a significant change.

"The regulations are now clear, the grey zones have been taken out in terms of what is and what isn't allowed, and hopefully AlphaTauri will now benefit from that."

AlphaTauri boss Franz Tost agreed that the change will be a positive, and stressed that it showed the benefits of synergies between the two teams.

"Currently we are the only team using a 50% wind tunnel and Bedford is 60%," said the Austrian. "Which obviously will bring us an advantage, because you can make much more valid measurements.


"The synergy process, we did it quite successfully in the last few years for saving money and improving performance, because Red Bull Technology is on a very high level from the technical standard."

Tost agreed with Horner's assessment that AlphaTauri is no longer a junior team: "I think that the team has grown up in the last years. We showed a better performance, the car is more reliable, the co-operation with Red Bull Technology is very positive, the synergy process brings us a lot of advantages, everything within the regulations.

"We are the brand ambassador to AlphaTauri, and therefore we have to show a good performance, we have to be there, because otherwise it doesn't make sense for AlphaTauri to be in F1."

AlphaTauri's move to a 60% model is also useful for Pirelli, which hitherto has had to produce 50% scale wind tunnel tyres just for one team, and will now only have to make the bigger versions.

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etusch
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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can they share their works at wind tunnel?

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Marti_EF3
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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etusch wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:36 pm
can they share their works at wind tunnel?
You can always forget to shut off the computers... :lol:

TNTHead
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Marti_EF3 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:50 pm
etusch wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:36 pm
can they share their works at wind tunnel?
You can always forget to shut off the computers... :lol:
Don't know what the rules say about that, but many companies work on related projects with Non Disclosure Agreement so formally you create a 'Chinese wall' within your organisation. But that doesnt mean you can't be informed in an informal way.

Interesting news btw, it makes perfectly sense to see AlphaTauri as a more or less equal sister team, when budgets will be similar from 2022 onwards.

NL_Fer
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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They could always shuffle some personel around. The information is in their heads.

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Also, the name “junior team” doesn’t make much sense anymore, not only are both AT drivers older then the RedBull drivers (Verstappen is still the youngest of the four), both AT drivers were tested at RBR and found to light. Their combined GP tally is also significant higher then that of the combined experience at RedBull.

Lock2nl
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Lock2nl wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:04 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:19 pm
Comparable?

Maybe Renault was slightly better. Last year they were super in Monza. If You are correct Lock they will beat Max, but I don’t think that will happen.
Not necessarily. They may not beat Max. We do not know what plans RBR has with the RB16 at Monza, do we? But if Renault is also competitive at Mugello....
Well, we will never know if they would have beaten Max at Monza but given the quali results they were close.
However, if Max would not have had issues with his engine in Mugello, Daniel would likely have been fighting for fourthf. And that track is not made for cars that only suit low downforce tracks.
So they did well at Mugello, or at least Daniel did. Daniel also confirmed they were able to setup the car with high downforce much better than before.
If they manage to pull this through after Sochi, then Alonso will be a force to reckon with next year.. (not so Ocon).