[ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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The flaw can be fixed but will it be enough who knows. There's a good half second they can find if they nail the bargeboard, shame it's the last year we'll see them. Seems almost a waste.

In terms of packaging the Renault engine is the worst of the 4, and the packaging and the bargeboards are critical to downforce. If both packaging and bargeboards improve the Renault team could take a step forward because believe it or not, they have the best suspension on the grid.

The problem with the Renault chassis is evident when compared to the McLaren chassis. McLaren just has more attention to detail than Renault, the McLaren craftsmanship is better than what Renault is capable of. Perhaps there's too much micromanagement going on, they try very interesting solutions, but they focus too much time on one or two aspects instead of looking at the car as a whole.

Fighting McLaren should be the objective, that is the most objective barometer because everything under the hood is the same. The chassis that surrounds the power unit and the team operating it are the only difference.

McLaren builds their own transmission, their own chassis, suspension, aero, fuel tank etc. They are doing a better job than Renault on that end along with the sporting side. Renault now has a very strong driver pairing, this is a big test for them and the rest of the team. So a lot to play for.
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the EDGE
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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godlameroso wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:38 am

Renault team could take a step forward because believe it or not, they have the best suspension on the grid.
I’d love to believe it, perhaps you can explain your reasoning However?

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Look at how they performed in slow corners and bumpy tracks that rely on hard braking for chicanes.
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the EDGE
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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godlameroso wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:28 pm
Look at how they performed in slow corners and bumpy tracks that rely on hard braking for chicanes.
Thanks, but I’ll be honest... track characteristics are not my forte, where should I be looking exactly?

Emag
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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the EDGE wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:00 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:28 pm
Look at how they performed in slow corners and bumpy tracks that rely on hard braking for chicanes.
Thanks, but I’ll be honest... track characteristics are not my forte, where should I be looking exactly?
Canada, Italy, Singapore S2-3, Monaco, Russia S3, China

FPV GTHO
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Ricciardo seemed to think the initial car was worse than the previous years Red Bull over the kerbs. You think they turned that around to be the best?

GhostF1
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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FPV GTHO wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:33 am
Ricciardo seemed to think the initial car was worse than the previous years Red Bull over the kerbs. You think they turned that around to be the best?
No lol. That's absolute pure speculation, with zero evidence and it shouldn't be paraded around as such. We have a driver that claims the opposite.

"Renault has the best suspension on the grid" is about as believable as them having "the best power unit".

Mclarensenna
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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FPV GTHO wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:33 am
Ricciardo seemed to think the initial car was worse than the previous years Red Bull over the kerbs. You think they turned that around to be the best?
In 2019 it is slightly more difficult to compare as Redbull and Renault used different engines.
But in 2018 the race pace gap was roughly 2 seconds usually between redbull and renault and in 2019 the race pace gap was again about 2 seconds roughly.
Looking at abhu dhabi the last race in 2019 Max lapped Ric and his average lap time over the entire race was exactly 2.19 seconds slower.
Renault qualifying gap in some races was not as bad as that though as we saw over the 2019 campaign.
Redbull on average adds about 1 second per year (race pace) give or take. Hard to exactly give an exact number because rules have changed a few times over the last few years so the cars and tyres are not exactly the same.
Based on these very rough estimates it seems the Renault chassis is a good 2 years behind the Redbull chassis in general not withstanding latest wing updates and tyres.

The other thing to consider is that yes the 2018 renault chassis was roughly 2 seconds a lap slower than redbulls the other problem is that not only is it much slower but also extremely difficult to drive. Ric made many complaints about the stability over kerbs, balance, and basically the car being on a knife edge under braking.
Hulk also made a statement saying yes its the same problems on the 2018 Renault which i complained about last few years but problems are still there.

So not only is the Renault chassis much much slower in race pace it is also extremely difficult to drive as well.
It really put Ric and Hulk on the back foot massively in more ways than 1.
Im pretty sure Ric would any day prefer to drive even a 1 year old redbull if he could. As it would be quicker and much easier to drive.
I hope Renault finally rocks up with a half decent car this year. Time will tell.

Mansell89
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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I think with Renault this year you would be looking for fixes to the flaws and getting the baseline right. A step in the rig hit direction would be nice but I don’t expect much more than that given their openness around the huge focus on 2021 and I don’t blame them.

The best step they’ve made so far is signing Pat Fry, who did a super job on last years McLaren - who were in a real mess prior to that. He should help to address any major flaws and will be a big part of 2021 I’d imagine.

We need Renault and McLaren moving forward for the good of the sport - 10 drivers in the podium fight would make fantastic viewing.

the EDGE
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Emag wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:58 am
the EDGE wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:00 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:28 pm
Look at how they performed in slow corners and bumpy tracks that rely on hard braking for chicanes.
Thanks, but I’ll be honest... track characteristics are not my forte, where should I be looking exactly?
Canada, Italy, Singapore S2-3, Monaco, Russia S3, China
Well I must admit Renault seemed to do good at these tracks, and if we are talking bumpy tracks then USA was missed of this list and they seemed to go well there too,

FPV GTHO
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:19 am
FPV GTHO wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:33 am
Ricciardo seemed to think the initial car was worse than the previous years Red Bull over the kerbs. You think they turned that around to be the best?
In 2019 it is slightly more difficult to compare as Redbull and Renault used different engines.
But in 2018 the race pace gap was roughly 2 seconds usually between redbull and renault and in 2019 the race pace gap was again about 2 seconds roughly.
Looking at abhu dhabi the last race in 2019 Max lapped Ric and his average lap time over the entire race was exactly 2.19 seconds slower.
Renault qualifying gap in some races was not as bad as that though as we saw over the 2019 campaign.
Redbull on average adds about 1 second per year (race pace) give or take. Hard to exactly give an exact number because rules have changed a few times over the last few years so the cars and tyres are not exactly the same.
Based on these very rough estimates it seems the Renault chassis is a good 2 years behind the Redbull chassis in general not withstanding latest wing updates and tyres.

The other thing to consider is that yes the 2018 renault chassis was roughly 2 seconds a lap slower than redbulls the other problem is that not only is it much slower but also extremely difficult to drive. Ric made many complaints about the stability over kerbs, balance, and basically the car being on a knife edge under braking.
Hulk also made a statement saying yes its the same problems on the 2018 Renault which i complained about last few years but problems are still there.

So not only is the Renault chassis much much slower in race pace it is also extremely difficult to drive as well.
It really put Ric and Hulk on the back foot massively in more ways than 1.
Im pretty sure Ric would any day prefer to drive even a 1 year old redbull if he could. As it would be quicker and much easier to drive.
I hope Renault finally rocks up with a half decent car this year. Time will tell.
2 years is alot of catching up to do, particularly against a team not only employing more resources but also one of the biggest developers behind the current hydraulic suspension elements being implemented across the grid.

Mclarensenna
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Mansell89 wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:34 am
I think with Renault this year you would be looking for fixes to the flaws and getting the baseline right. A step in the rig hit direction would be nice but I don’t expect much more than that given their openness around the huge focus on 2021 and I don’t blame them.

The best step they’ve made so far is signing Pat Fry, who did a super job on last years McLaren - who were in a real mess prior to that. He should help to address any major flaws and will be a big part of 2021 I’d imagine.

We need Renault and McLaren moving forward for the good of the sport - 10 drivers in the podium fight would make fantastic viewing.
Yes pat fry did seem to help Mclaren make a big step forward in 2019.
Any idea if pat fry is helping on the 2020 Renault or is he still on gardening leave?

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Mansell89 wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:34 am
I think with Renault this year you would be looking for fixes to the flaws and getting the baseline right. A step in the rig hit direction would be nice but I don’t expect much more than that given their openness around the huge focus on 2021 and I don’t blame them.

The best step they’ve made so far is signing Pat Fry, who did a super job on last years McLaren - who were in a real mess prior to that. He should help to address any major flaws and will be a big part of 2021 I’d imagine.

We need Renault and McLaren moving forward for the good of the sport - 10 drivers in the podium fight would make fantastic viewing.
Yes pat fry did seem to help Mclaren make a big step forward in 2019.
Any idea if pat fry is helping on the 2020 Renault or is he still on gardening leave?
He joins next week I believe, so his impact on the 2020 Renault, at least initially will be minimal.


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JordanMugen
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Some more interesting comments from the Renault Sport F1 Managing Director: :)
Cyril Abiteboul wrote: It looks like we were missing something in the technical leadership of the team, in the ability to pull all the resources that we put together.
We talk a lot about figures, and headline numbers like 750 people in Enstone now. It's huge, and there has been lots of investments: £15 million of investment. But you know, all of that needs to be driven by a force. And I felt that, and we felt that, we were a bit weak in technical leadership. Therefore, that led to the recruitment of Pat.
Abiteboul also claims the R.S.19 was a better performer than on-track results suggested...
Cyril Abiteboul wrote: I think in the first part of this season we had a decent car. But it was not very visible, because we did not manage to get the results or score the points that we could have at the time, given the theoretical competitiveness of our car against our competitors. There were different types of reasons for that: reliability, the engine, operation at the track, a bit of pitstop, and a bit of strategy. Plus a bit of drivers, also particularly Daniel [Ricciardo] getting used to the car. That unfortunately cost us some points at the time where we were in decent shape.
Renault's exceptional power unit progressed benefittedly McLaren greatly according to Abiteboul:
When we were expecting to bring the car to the next level, it didn't really work. So we discovered that there was a sort of limit for the development of the car given the choices that were made in terms of overall philosophy.
That was the story of the second part of the season. It was more difficult, and being out-developed by teams around us. Plus McLaren, to start with, benefiting from progress we had made on the engine, and the progress that we kept on coming in the course of the season.
Source: https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/renau ... n/4676556/

Abiteboul's manner of explaining things is certainly rather curious to say the least! :wink:

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:16 am
Mclarensenna wrote:
Mansell89 wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:34 am
I think with Renault this year you would be looking for fixes to the flaws and getting the baseline right. A step in the rig hit direction would be nice but I don’t expect much more than that given their openness around the huge focus on 2021 and I don’t blame them.

The best step they’ve made so far is signing Pat Fry, who did a super job on last years McLaren - who were in a real mess prior to that. He should help to address any major flaws and will be a big part of 2021 I’d imagine.

We need Renault and McLaren moving forward for the good of the sport - 10 drivers in the podium fight would make fantastic viewing.
Yes pat fry did seem to help Mclaren make a big step forward in 2019.
Any idea if pat fry is helping on the 2020 Renault or is he still on gardening leave?
He joins next week I believe, so his impact on the 2020 Renault, at least initially will be minimal.


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It is what it is but they could have used his help sooner.