[ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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tangodjango
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Neno wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:01 pm
Ill find source for you dont you worry

EDIT: Dammit, I cant find it now, but I will eventually. Overall article was about profits out engine deals and how Mercedes isnt really making any money out customer deals. And they are in their word just off setting price for engine development they did for their own car which included making good engine. So they overall selling engines at loss and trying increasing number of customer deals to break even. Ill find it eventually.

In one of articles I found are this quotes:
"The engine development costs big money, and the engine departments of all the current suppliers are loss making entities which shouldn't be the case, so we're trying to contain that."

"Wolff points out that engine suppliers are being required to sell this equipment at lower prices than ever before." Which is BS. If you read further down my post you will realize Honda really can't sell engines to any other team because they are contractually obligated to worship RB an AT and Renault only in that time had Mclaren under engine deal so he really one spoke about thing he knows most - mercedes.


Also there was article soon after that from autosport which i found btw, about Renault and Abiteboul who confirmed they also arent making any money out engine deal and their current engine price is dictated by cap limitiation.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14669 ... istraction

But while Mercedes has always emphasised the benefits of having multiple customers, Renault F1 managing director Cyril Abiteboul said there would be no downsides to his firm going alone.

"From an economic perspective, there is absolutely no impact and nothing in it, because we sell, more or less, at a cost due to the price cap limitation

Now even without my article I searched if you read between lines you should conclude that Merc is satisfied about selling at loss due more customer engine deals because in reality selling engines for them isnt about making profit, but Renault even with same thinking had set price on engine and they werent really willing "sell" below it.

But Mclaren found that Merc deal is better than Renault deal and they were willing to use tokens on engine and do chassis integration hassle. Which to me is another suggestion that deal with Merc was a lot cheaper, again suggesting selling engine well below what "best" engine on grid is worth it.
Your whole post is simply put clutching at straws. No offense intended. The way I see it is that if you include R&D costs all the engine manufacturers make a loss. However that is possibly lessened for Ferrari and Mercedes because they have multiple customers and Honda already makes and Renault will make a bigger loss from next year because Honda supplies free engines and Renault will have no customers from next year. Now it's possible that the expenditure after all net inflow from customer teams are similar but we don't really know that because we don't know the R&D costs. We know the HPP accounts (for both Formula1 and FormulaE) but Honda, Renault and Ferrari are part of larger divisions so no breakup is available.
Also I smell BS from Cyril's statement which was made to save face after both McLaren and RBR leaving but that's purely on Renault for years of underinvestment and poor reliability and performance.
I simply see McLaren were offered a superior product at a lower or near enough equivalent price with a company they have a long and successful history with who are also UK based. Seems a no brainer to me.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

anzx
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Will Ricciardo get new engine for Monza?

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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dren wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:19 pm
Isn't there a cap on PU prices to customers?
There is, both team are below it.

toraabe
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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anzx wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:14 pm
Will Ricciardo get new engine for Monza?
Maybe but i find this interesting https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/67124/-s ... peal-.html

ispano6
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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toraabe wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:38 am
anzx wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:14 pm
Will Ricciardo get new engine for Monza?
Maybe but i find this interesting https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/67124/-s ... peal-.html
Secret Mercedes info motivated Renault to withdraw Racing Point appeal'

Racing Point recently received a penalty of €400,000 and fifteen points deduction for copying the 2019 Mercedes. This was in response to a protest filed by Renault and received support from several other teams, including Ferrari. After the ruling was made, Renault decided to leave it as it is, because the goal would have been achieved. However, there appears to be another reason not to appeal: secret Mercedes information.

Faster Renault

The Italian Corrière della Sera reports that Renault waived its appeal regarding the penalty given to Racing Point. This follows contact with the Mercedes-CEO Ola Kallenius, who spoke with Renault-CEO Luca de Meo. This conversation led to the conclusion that it would be better for Formula 1 to drop the appeal.

But that's not all, because it is indirectly in the interest of Mercedes not to let this continue for too long. At the same time, Renault also wants to gain something from it, of course, and as compensation, Renault would have been offered secret Mercedes information. This would then focus on how to optimize the engine.

This automatically explains why Daniel Ricciardo and Esteban Ocon suddenly performed better than usual during the Belgian Grand Prix last weekend. The effects of that information would have been immediately visible. What's more, Mercedes' intention is to further improve its collaboration with Renault, more on a business level outside the sport.
Why am I not surprised.

wunderkind
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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ispano6 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:46 am
toraabe wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:38 am
anzx wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:14 pm
Will Ricciardo get new engine for Monza?
Maybe but i find this interesting https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/67124/-s ... peal-.html
Secret Mercedes info motivated Renault to withdraw Racing Point appeal'

Racing Point recently received a penalty of €400,000 and fifteen points deduction for copying the 2019 Mercedes. This was in response to a protest filed by Renault and received support from several other teams, including Ferrari. After the ruling was made, Renault decided to leave it as it is, because the goal would have been achieved. However, there appears to be another reason not to appeal: secret Mercedes information.

Faster Renault

The Italian Corrière della Sera reports that Renault waived its appeal regarding the penalty given to Racing Point. This follows contact with the Mercedes-CEO Ola Kallenius, who spoke with Renault-CEO Luca de Meo. This conversation led to the conclusion that it would be better for Formula 1 to drop the appeal.

But that's not all, because it is indirectly in the interest of Mercedes not to let this continue for too long. At the same time, Renault also wants to gain something from it, of course, and as compensation, Renault would have been offered secret Mercedes information. This would then focus on how to optimize the engine.

This automatically explains why Daniel Ricciardo and Esteban Ocon suddenly performed better than usual during the Belgian Grand Prix last weekend. The effects of that information would have been immediately visible. What's more, Mercedes' intention is to further improve its collaboration with Renault, more on a business level outside the sport.
Why am I not surprised.
If true, then it seems the Mercedes engineers know the Renault car/engine better than the Renault engineers themselves.

This smells like BS.

ThePapayaJaguar
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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How long will Pat Fry be with Renault?

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djos
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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ispano6 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:46 am
toraabe wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:38 am
anzx wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:14 pm
Will Ricciardo get new engine for Monza?
Maybe but i find this interesting https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/67124/-s ... peal-.html
Secret Mercedes info motivated Renault to withdraw Racing Point appeal'

Racing Point recently received a penalty of €400,000 and fifteen points deduction for copying the 2019 Mercedes. This was in response to a protest filed by Renault and received support from several other teams, including Ferrari. After the ruling was made, Renault decided to leave it as it is, because the goal would have been achieved. However, there appears to be another reason not to appeal: secret Mercedes information.

Faster Renault

The Italian Corrière della Sera reports that Renault waived its appeal regarding the penalty given to Racing Point. This follows contact with the Mercedes-CEO Ola Kallenius, who spoke with Renault-CEO Luca de Meo. This conversation led to the conclusion that it would be better for Formula 1 to drop the appeal.

But that's not all, because it is indirectly in the interest of Mercedes not to let this continue for too long. At the same time, Renault also wants to gain something from it, of course, and as compensation, Renault would have been offered secret Mercedes information. This would then focus on how to optimize the engine.

This automatically explains why Daniel Ricciardo and Esteban Ocon suddenly performed better than usual during the Belgian Grand Prix last weekend. The effects of that information would have been immediately visible. What's more, Mercedes' intention is to further improve its collaboration with Renault, more on a business level outside the sport.
Why am I not surprised.
Sounds like tin foil hat BS to me!

Daniel said they figured out how to find the car's sweet spot at Silverstone:

https://www.speedcafe.com/2020/09/02/ri ... t-renault/
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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_cerber1
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Of course, this is a BS, no matter what information you get from your rivals, you can never apply it to your chassis, just a week later. This takes months of analysis.

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dren
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Yeah, I call BS. Finding a set-up sweet spot as Ric has stated sounds way more plausible. Plus, the Renault has recently been best at low DF configuration, so that makes sense.
Honda!

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Morteza
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

selvam_e2002
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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I thought of Podium for renault however Mclaren did it using Renault engine. It is a 1 tenth difference. Is Daniel Ricciardo made nay mistake in Q3 last run? I could not see his run in Tv

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MtthsMlw
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Whatever..

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proteus
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Ocon is absolutely miserable at Renault. Team radio after todays race is brutal. Next year it is going to be even worse. Toxic enviroment at Renault, might be the reason why Daniel is leaving them.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

bucker
bucker
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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proteus wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:17 pm
Ocon is absolutely miserable at Renault. Team radio after todays race is brutal. Next year it is going to be even worse. Toxic enviroment at Renault, might be the reason why Daniel is leaving them.
🤔🤔. I don't think that this is the case. Ocon was behind Ric, he struggled on the second stint with soft tyres, same as Rai.