[ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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RedNEO
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Is much known about whats expected of next years engine? I’ve heard big updates from Merc/Honda/Fer but no word from Renault. I hope it’s just quite confidence, I know they also are focusing a lot on 2022 but they can’t be left behind in 2021 because a lot of cars are going to be strong in the mid field.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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RedNEO wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:02 pm
Is much known about whats expected of next years engine? I’ve heard big updates from Merc/Honda/Fer but no word from Renault. I hope it’s just quite confidence, I know they also are focusing a lot on 2022 but they can’t be left behind in 2021 because a lot of cars are going to be strong in the mid field.
Last I heard same spec next year. no change. Then brand new PU for 2022.

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RedNEO
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:45 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:02 pm
Is much known about whats expected of next years engine? I’ve heard big updates from Merc/Honda/Fer but no word from Renault. I hope it’s just quite confidence, I know they also are focusing a lot on 2022 but they can’t be left behind in 2021 because a lot of cars are going to be strong in the mid field.
Last I heard same spec next year. no change. Then brand new PU for 2022.
Thanks do you have a source for this? I’m a little surprised because seems like an opportunity to bring something forward from the 2022 spec to this engine since they won’t really get another chance until 2022 depending on if/when the engines might be frozen.

selvam_e2002
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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I heard from one of the user post in RS2.0 that they will use 2 token on cooling system. we have Engine development restriction in place. So, Renault most probably use same engine.

However how Ferrari RB and Mercedes bringing the update on engine side(really or just rumors) no clue.

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RedNEO
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Yeah I’ve seen that as well but from my understanding the engine freeze is only during the season. You can still bring a brand new engine for next year so it makes little sense why you wouldn’t. Also the token spend is only really regarding aero/cooling internals I guess. Again if the tokens are for the side pods and air duct for example wouldn’t altering the shape also mean you can fit a completely different engine inside that’s planned for 2022. I see no reason to waste tokens on cooling the same engine that’s managed absolutely fine this year.

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Mclarensenna
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:21 am
I heard from one of the user post in RS2.0 that they will use 2 token on cooling system. we have Engine development restriction in place. So, Renault most probably use same engine.

However how Ferrari RB and Mercedes bringing the update on engine side(really or just rumors) no clue.
https://www.essentiallysports.com/f1-ne ... 1-reports/

I hope your statement about Renault bringing the same engine next year is not true as if it is and the rumor of Merc bringing 20 more horsepower is true, then Renault are in serious trouble next year with similar if not worse possible results than their 2020 campaign.

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RedNEO
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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I’d too like to know the origins of this rumour because it makes Renault seem like they want to intentionally gimp themselves. In a time when Honda can snap its fingers and put its 2022 engine into the 21 chassis, Renault sure better be able to do the same. Spending two tokens on the same thing makes no sense whatsoever.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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RedNEO wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:53 am
diffuser wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:45 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:02 pm
Is much known about whats expected of next years engine? I’ve heard big updates from Merc/Honda/Fer but no word from Renault. I hope it’s just quite confidence, I know they also are focusing a lot on 2022 but they can’t be left behind in 2021 because a lot of cars are going to be strong in the mid field.
Last I heard same spec next year. no change. Then brand new PU for 2022.
Thanks do you have a source for this? I’m a little surprised because seems like an opportunity to bring something forward from the 2022 spec to this engine since they won’t really get another chance until 2022 depending on if/when the engines might be frozen.
I don't actually know. I do know they have a whole new PU comming for 2022, originally planned for 2021. It's front compressor so it would require changes like McLaren are making for Merc, 2 tokens. So I doubt they are putting any energy into the old PU. It doesn't Preclude backward compatibility or reliability upgrades.

The whole new PU is confirmed here https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15380 ... ore-2022

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RedNEO
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Hmm reading between the lines it seems they are using this as a bargaining tool with the FIA. I feel like they could easily accommodate the engine but want to do so without using the tokens. Maybe they reason that if the FIA wants them to agree to freeze at the start of 2022 instead of in 2023 they want to be able to fit this engine in 2021 without tokens like they planned to originally but since they had to change there own plans because Red Bull blocked the engine freeze this would be like a compromise? Or maybe it’s just about freezing the 2022 engine half way through that year as they are saying publicly.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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RedNEO wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:29 am
Hmm reading between the lines it seems they are using this as a bargaining tool with the FIA. I feel like they could easily accommodate the engine but want to do so without using the tokens. Maybe they reason that if the FIA wants them to agree to freeze at the start of 2022 instead of in 2023 they want to be able to fit this engine in 2021 without tokens like they planned to originally but since they had to change there own plans because Red Bull blocked the engine freeze this would be like a compromise? Or maybe it’s just about freezing the 2022 engine half way through that year as they are saying publicly.
I think he's since come out and just said no. Anyways, Like I said I think they have little or no change for 2021. 2022 Full new PU with full intergration into the 2022 new regs. Front compressor rear turbine with mid engine MGU-H.

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RedNEO
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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Na he just came out and said the same thing. “No, but we will compromise” which means Renault wants something in return but we will see if this leads to anything since they clearly have the high ground over Red Bull so don’t need to do anything.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:21 am
I heard from one of the user post in RS2.0 that they will use 2 token on cooling system. we have Engine development restriction in place. So, Renault most probably use same engine.

However how Ferrari RB and Mercedes bringing the update on engine side(really or just rumors) no clue.
Think you are referring to a PU iteration restrictions and not development restrictions. There dev restrictions, like how many dyno hours they can use. They are still developing... They are allowed just 1 new PU hardware change. They can change everything or anything once. Think the lock in is May or something.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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RedNEO wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:02 am
Na he just came out and said the same thing. “No, but we will compromise” which means Renault wants something in return but we will see if this leads to anything since they clearly have the high ground over Red Bull so don’t need to do anything.
With Renault releasing a new PU for 2022...how can they ever support a freeze??? Unless they are very lax on reliability upgrades. Honda knows first hand what a shiit show that can be. Although, after all these years of running hybrid, you'd think Renault will get sizing pretty close to perfect. Turbine/compressor requirements, sizing, dos and don'ts are fairly well known.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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RedNEO wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:57 am
Yeah I’ve seen that as well but from my understanding the engine freeze is only during the season. You can still bring a brand new engine for next year so it makes little sense why you wouldn’t. Also the token spend is only really regarding aero/cooling internals I guess. Again if the tokens are for the side pods and air duct for example wouldn’t altering the shape also mean you can fit a completely different engine inside that’s planned for 2022. I see no reason to waste tokens on cooling the same engine that’s managed absolutely fine this year.
So, they got the cooling wrong and had to run the car more open than they would have liked. More open equals more drag. If they want to fix this, it must be substantial.
Last edited by diffuser on Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RedNEO
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Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:25 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:02 am
Na he just came out and said the same thing. “No, but we will compromise” which means Renault wants something in return but we will see if this leads to anything since they clearly have the high ground over Red Bull so don’t need to do anything.
With Renault releasing a new PU for 2022...how can they ever support a freeze??? Unless they are very lax on reliability upgrades. Honda knows first hand what a shiit show that can be. Although, after all these years of running hybrid, you'd think Renault will get sizing pretty close to perfect. Turbine/compressor requirements, sizing, dos and don'ts are fairly well known.
I think the whole thing is about when the freeze happens, since the new engines are coming in 2025 nobody wants to spend ridiculous money on both projects but it’s in Renault’s interest to prolong that to at least 2023 as planned so that’s what they will do. Red Bull will have a tough time trying to handle that timeframe since they won’t have development for at least a year compared to everyone else and Mercedes is also on Renaults side. It could end up costing Red Bull two years of no development but Renault said they may compromise and only make it 1.5 years if they can get something out of it. We are not even getting into engine equalisation territory because Merc/Ren will not have that because they believe they will probably be ahead when the freeze happens.