[ 2020 ] Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

[JRindt]

Back to the topic. I think they want to stick to their own manufacture in as wide a spectrum as they possibly can due to several reasons.

Surely the Williams gearbox business can be reployed to win contracts away from XTrac, Hewland and Sadev in other categories?

You don't have to shut the division down, instead make Williams the premier name in Indycar gearboxes, in LMP2 gearboxes, in WRC gearboxes, in Formula Ford gearboxes... all these things.

For example the 4-speed H-pattern Hewland box used in Formula Ford is not a spec part, and is one of the most expensive parts of a Formula Ford... If Williams could develop a cheaper and better 4-speed racing gearbox for Formula Ford, that would be a strong market with hundreds of Formula Fords being raced globally.

That’s an admirable idea. But, how do you sell that?

Hey, we want to sell you our Gear boxes with cutting edge technology. However, we aren’t good enough to develop our own gear box and buy it from someone else

[netoperek]

Back to the topic. I think they want to stick to their own manufacture in as wide a spectrum as they possibly can due to several reasons.

Surely the Williams gearbox business can be reployed to win contracts away from XTrac, Hewland and Sadev in other categories?

You don't have to shut the division down, instead make Williams the premier name in Indycar gearboxes, in LMP2 gearboxes, in WRC gearboxes, in Formula Ford gearboxes... all these things.

For example the 4-speed H-pattern Hewland box used in Formula Ford is not a spec part, and is one of the most expensive parts of a Formula Ford... If Williams could develop a cheaper and better 4-speed racing gearbox for Formula Ford, that would be a strong market with hundreds of Formula Fords being raced globally.

That’s an admirable idea. But, how do you sell that?

Hey, we want to sell you our Gear boxes with cutting edge technology. However, we aren’t good enough to develop our own gear box and buy it from someone else

That was exactly my point - the more they can do themselves, the bigger the chances of such deals.

[Lotus102]

Having just watched the drive to survive episode, it actually underlines how wrong I was to support Paddy as much as I did.
...
What I have unfortunately seen in this mess, is that Claire accepts that she is part of the failure and Paddy didn't.

I completely agree. I was a huge supporter of Paddy until the beginning of 2019. I couldn't believe that things had gone so wrong on his watch. But I don't accept that he wasn't able to make the changes that he wanted. The story at the time (as reported by people like Mark Hughes) was that after winter testing in 2018, Paddy requested the autonomy to make big changes in the technical department, and Claire gave him the freedom he asked for. Let's not forget that whatever the circumstances, Ed Wood and Dirk de Beer left shortly after that, and Doug McKiernan, who had only recently joined, was promoted to cover both roles, so there were obviously changes taking place as a result of that. The Drive to Survive epsiode seemed to back this up. Paddy made reference to having made significant changes in the tech dept: "we've made a lot of changes to how we developed the car. Changes within the team, changes within our technical approach. So we're optimistic that we've made some good improvements." Claire backed this up by saying "he has really stripped everything back to basics".

So it seems to me that it was the changes Paddy tried to make that failed and let to the situation in 2019. Now I'm not saying that it was totally his fault - I suspect what happened was that his attempt at reorganising the tech dept uncovered some significant flaws that were already there and preventing the team from advancing. I don't doubt that there were some very outdated processes and probably people who had been around a long time and did not accept that there were better ways to do things. It was the rock bottom of 2019 that led to a really serious revamping that left no stone unturned - and appears to have borne miraculous fruit, if the prompt appearance and condition of the FW43 is anything to go by. Maybe he wasn't given the resources to do what Claire and Mike O'Driscoll subsequently did, and which seems to have worked, but on the other hand he gave every appearance in early 2019 as not having a clue where the problems were.

It wasn't necessarily Paddy's fault - he's an engineer, and a very talented one, he's not an expert in reshaping organisations - but it was Paddy's responsibility. And at that awful, awful press conference where he said he didn't know why the car was late, and then tried to suggest it was because he was caught out by how many parts there are in a modern F1 car...I'm sorry, but not even Adrian Newey would survive that, and Lowe is no Newey.

[Lotus102]

I doubt I could do it better, honestly.

The problems seem to be inherent until the power structure completely changes.

And she IS emotional. Maybe watching the show to see her behind the scenes would give you a different perspective. She pretends to be happy, confident and in charge.

It's obvious that it's all bullshit.

Claire is a whole lot less 'emotional' than Gunter Steiner and Cyril Abiteboul, and a whole lot more successful than both of them put together. You don't see Claire threatening to sack engineers in front of the cameras or chasing a driver around the paddock for breaking her door Or smirking at Christian Horner in a press conference for nicking his driver.

[bill shoe]

It wasn't necessarily Paddy's fault - he's an engineer, and a very talented one, he's not an expert in reshaping organisations - but it was Paddy's responsibility. And at that awful, awful press conference where he said he didn't know why the car was late, and then tried to suggest it was because he was caught out by how many parts there are in a modern F1 car...I'm sorry, but not even Adrian Newey would survive that, and Lowe is no Newey.

Yea, Paddy had to go. It was clear the team was not putting any real effort in for him. The scary thought is that it's conceivable that "everyone else" at Williams was to blame rather than Paddy. But it's not practical to fire an entire recalcitrant team, so by definition Paddy had to go.

[izzy]

I suspect what happened was that his attempt at reorganising the tech dept uncovered some significant flaws that were already there and preventing the team from advancing. I don't doubt that there were some very outdated processes and probably people who had been around a long time and did not accept that there were better ways to do things. It was the rock bottom of 2019 that led to a really serious revamping that left no stone unturned - and appears to have borne miraculous fruit, if the prompt appearance and condition of the FW43 is anything to go by. Maybe he wasn't given the resources to do what Claire and Mike O'Driscoll subsequently did, and which seems to have worked, but on the other hand he gave every appearance in early 2019 as not having a clue where the problems were.

i wonder if it might be a bit similar to Bob Fernley when he completely failed with McLaren's Indycar program, and about being used to working in a group with a bunch of really competent people who would always do what he was expecting and what each other were expecting, and then in this new situation things weren't happening that he'd been taking for granted

[JordanMugen]

That was exactly my point - the more they can do themselves, the bigger the chances of such deals.

So what's the biggest difference between Williams and McLaren then? They are both independent teams with customer engines, so Williams should be able to perform at the level of McLaren.

[Lotus102]

That was exactly my point - the more they can do themselves, the bigger the chances of such deals.

So what's the biggest difference between Williams and McLaren then? They are both independent teams with customer engines, so Williams should be able to perform at the level of McLaren.

Money. McLaren has wealthy backers from the Middle East. Even when they had virtually no sponsors, their owners kept them topped up. Williams has to cut its coat according to its cloth

[Lotus102]

It wasn't necessarily Paddy's fault - he's an engineer, and a very talented one, he's not an expert in reshaping organisations - but it was Paddy's responsibility. And at that awful, awful press conference where he said he didn't know why the car was late, and then tried to suggest it was because he was caught out by how many parts there are in a modern F1 car...I'm sorry, but not even Adrian Newey would survive that, and Lowe is no Newey.

Yea, Paddy had to go. It was clear the team was not putting any real effort in for him. The scary thought is that it's conceivable that "everyone else" at Williams was to blame rather than Paddy. But it's not practical to fire an entire recalcitrant team, so by definition Paddy had to go.

Is it clear? I don’t see that at all. We’ll see, I suppose. If Williams genuinely has taken a big step forward this year, as it seems to have done, then we’ll know that it is capable of changing, and Paddy was part more like of the problem rather than the solution. If things are as bad as last year, then that wasn’t it.

[Lotus102]

I suspect what happened was that his attempt at reorganising the tech dept uncovered some significant flaws that were already there and preventing the team from advancing. I don't doubt that there were some very outdated processes and probably people who had been around a long time and did not accept that there were better ways to do things. It was the rock bottom of 2019 that led to a really serious revamping that left no stone unturned - and appears to have borne miraculous fruit, if the prompt appearance and condition of the FW43 is anything to go by. Maybe he wasn't given the resources to do what Claire and Mike O'Driscoll subsequently did, and which seems to have worked, but on the other hand he gave every appearance in early 2019 as not having a clue where the problems were.

i wonder if it might be a bit similar to Bob Fernley when he completely failed with McLaren's Indycar program, and about being used to working in a group with a bunch of really competent people who would always do what he was expecting and what each other were expecting, and then in this new situation things weren't happening that he'd been taking for granted

I think there’s definitely a factor that Lowe was used to working in this incredibly slick, superbly well functioning and well resourced team, and maybe took for granted how easy it was to manage things under those circumstances. But it’s not as though, having realised that things were very different at Williams, he rolled his sleeves up and sorted it out. Instead, he just got in over his head and didn’t ask for help.

[izzy]

I think there’s definitely a factor that Lowe was used to working in this incredibly slick, superbly well functioning and well resourced team, and maybe took for granted how easy it was to manage things under those circumstances. But it’s not as though, having realised that things were very different at Williams, he rolled his sleeves up and sorted it out. Instead, he just got in over his head and didn’t ask for help.

yes he has to take responsibility doesn't he. It was just such a surprise as you've said and a disappointment, I really thought he'd turn Williams round, knowing all Mercedes' processes and virtual environment and generally how it's done

It just goes to show how little we actually know often about what goes on inside the teams and who's responsible really. But Mercedes dumped him for James Allison, so in that sense he was a cast-off like Mike Coughlan

[Lotus102]

yes he has to take responsibility doesn't he. It was just such a surprise as you've said and a disappointment, I really thought he'd turn Williams round, knowing all Mercedes' processes and virtual environment and generally how it's done

It just goes to show how little we actually know often about what goes on inside the teams and who's responsible really. But Mercedes dumped him for James Allison, so in that sense he was a cast-off like Mike Coughlan

Williams was apparently close to signing Allison before Mercedes swooped in, and it is said that Merc smoothed Paddy's path to go to Williams in compensation. It seems pretty obvious that Merc weren't that keen to hang on to Lowe. I have my theories as to what Toto knew and how much he rated the various people involved. I suppose the question is how much Paddy actually understood of the Mercedes internal systems and processes, or just benefited from things that were put in place by Ross Brawn

[izzy]

Williams was apparently close to signing Allison before Mercedes swooped in, and it is said that Merc smoothed Paddy's path to go to Williams in compensation. It seems pretty obvious that Merc weren't that keen to hang on to Lowe. I have my theories as to what Toto knew and how much he rated the various people involved. I suppose the question is how much Paddy actually understood of the Mercedes internal systems and processes, or just benefited from things that were put in place by Ross Brawn

oh i didn't know that. you can only wonder how Williams would've got on with James instead of Paddy! And Mercedes took Paddy in the first place obviously, thinking he'd be great, and perhaps in that environment he was effective enough or could just do the things he was good at

[Lotus102]

oh i didn't know that. you can only wonder how Williams would've got on with James instead of Paddy! And Mercedes took Paddy in the first place obviously, thinking he'd be great, and perhaps in that environment he was effective enough or could just do the things he was good at

Yes, I think that's it. My take on it, fwiw, is that Paddy is an extremely talented senior engineer, but had ambitions for a team principal/owner role for which he is not suited. There was already a bit of an issue at Merc over his pay and seniority (Allison was more or less a drop-in replacement but on significantly less pay and with less authority). I understand he wanted to become a major shareholder like Toto and Niki but they weren't prepared to acquiese to that. Williams were, but just dodged the bullet (he was supposed to receive his shares after three years in the role, subject to satisfaction on both sides, but obviously that never happened).

It's interesting looking at 'cobwebs' that are still around. There's still a page for Paddy on the Merc site, which describes his role thus: 'In June 2013, Paddy Lowe was appointed Executive Director (Technical) at the MERCEDES AMG PETRONAS Formula One Team – overseeing the team’s adaptation to the Hybrid Formula One revolution from a technical perspective.' It says very little about what he was actually doing after that, other than vague mentions of more silverware in 2014-15. I can see that with a fairly specific and well-defined and engineering-led project like that, he'd be just the man you want. As far as what happened at Williams is concerned, we'll never know exactly where the fault lay and the extent to which he was enabled to do what he thought needed to be done. But for me, several things stand out. First is that Williams was a functioning team at the end of 2017, which had the car to finish fourth and might well have done with a more solid driver lineup but by the start of 2019 was an unholy mess; and second is just the way Paddy conducted himself at the beginning of 2019. However bad things were within the team is it possible to imagine that a Ross Brawn or a Toto Wolff would have stepped in front of cameras and said they didn't know why the car was late to pre-season testing, having assured the boss just weeks before that it wouldn't be? Ultimately he just lacks the force of personality required to get things done. Claire has it, Christian Horner has it, even Gunter Steiner has his moments (though I suspect he'd be toast at most other teams). Maybe Paddy found that people who would go the extra mile for Claire, wouldn't for him.

[izzy]

Yes, I think that's it. My take on it, fwiw, is that Paddy is an extremely talented senior engineer, but had ambitions for a team principal/owner role for which he is not suited. There was already a bit of an issue at Merc over his pay and seniority (Allison was more or less a drop-in replacement but on significantly less pay and with less authority). I understand he wanted to become a major shareholder like Toto and Niki but they weren't prepared to acquiese to that. Williams were, but just dodged the bullet (he was supposed to receive his shares after three years in the role, subject to satisfaction on both sides, but obviously that never happened).
.... However bad things were within the team is it possible to imagine that a Ross Brawn or a Toto Wolff would have stepped in front of cameras and said they didn't know why the car was late to pre-season testing, having assured the boss just weeks before that it wouldn't be? Ultimately he just lacks the force of personality required to get things done. Claire has it, Christian Horner has it, even Gunter Steiner has his moments (though I suspect he'd be toast at most other teams). Maybe Paddy found that people who would go the extra mile for Claire, wouldn't for him.

yes he's a quiet person isn't he, more than 'a leader', and being in the right role is a thing all through F1 really, same with Aldo Costa and perhaps Lorenzo Sassi, and getting that right has been a big difference for Mercedes. Hopefully Claire has been learning and it's going to come right now, with the technical group