2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43
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Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 19:12
The most annoying thing right now is that the team has literally done almost nothing to the car!
Quoted for truth.

Seeing the gaps RB and Merc pulled on the field yesterday shows how good those top 2 cars are.

But it’s apparent that RB’s hardware gains have given them tactical setup advantages.

selvam_e2002
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Joined: 22 Oct 2018, 10:52

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I would say removal of DAS is impacting them a lot as they suffer to bring the Tyre in operational window.

e30ernest
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Joined: 29 Feb 2012, 08:47

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 17:18
e30ernest wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 16:45
Point 1, I think they wanted to get a 1-2. The undercut looked pretty powerful, so undercutting Verstappen with Bottas could have resulted to Bottas gaining track position over Max. They did not expect Max to catch up to Lewis though (maybe they could have pitted Lewis 1 lap earlier). Had the Bottas undercut worked, they could probably have had Lewis stay in front for a Merc 1-2. It was a gamble that didn't work.

Point 2, I agree.
This is a problem for them. They are caught in no man's land trying to play the team comes first game against a team who is playing the driver comes first game which at the moment is forcing them into decisions ultimately proving detrimental to both WDC and WCC hopes. Sunday was a perfect example. They overreached for a 1-2 without really having the package to do so and ended up with a 3-4. I think the more they chase the WCC, the more the chances of either championship disappear.

They need to very quickly make a call as to what their priority is for the season. hate to say it given how people can react, but unless there's some significant upgrades coming, the WCC is gone. But they can still compete for the WDC. However that does require sacrifice from Bottas and I don't think he'd be willing. (Don't blame him)
Yes, I do think that if they start banking on one driver more than the other, we'll see better results for them. I don't know when they'll start backing Hamilton now though. IMO they should start favoring him given how Bottas is down on the points.

littlebigcat
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Joined: 06 May 2017, 19:47

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I'm not going to claim it is intentional, but likely as of Thursday next week Mercedes is about to get 2.5% extra wind tunnel time and CFD allowance and Red Bull is going to lose the same amount.

e30ernest
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Joined: 29 Feb 2012, 08:47

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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How long will that advantage last again? Does it apply for next year or this year?

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adrianjordan
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 11:34
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Hammerfist wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 14:45
adrianjordan wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 09:32
Hammerfist wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 08:03
Is there anything in the pipeline for Merc in terms of upgrades? I hear nothing. If that is the case, Redbull will leave them for dead as they usually develop aggressively throughout the year.
This is no normal season though. At some point each team has to switch focus to the new cars. I think Merc already has.
When you are fighting for the championship it makes no sense to abandon development completely for the final year before a big regulation change. I am pretty certain Redbull won't do that. You can clearly see that their car is getting stronger and stronger. Noone has any idea who will get it right for next year. It's a crap shoot. It could be a team like Mclaren or even worse, Ferrari and they might be untouchable. Moreover, with all the budget restrictions it's a big and a terrible gamble to give up on a strong base and focus on next year only.
Normally I would agree, but with the way the rules are written, if you get your basic design for 2022 wrong then you can spend years trying to catch back up.

I think Mercedes are willing to write off this season and settle for 2nd if that's all they can manage in the end, in order to give themselves the best chance going into the new rules.

You're right that any team could find the magic sweet spot in terms of design, but leaving it too late to switch focus vastly reduces the chance of being that team in a resource limited formula.

Just look at 2009 and how much McLaren and Ferrari struggled after continuing to develop their 2008 cars.

Merc will apply their characteristic pragmatism and switch when they feel it is best. RBR will almost certainly do likewise. I just think that Merc have already done so.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

littlebigcat
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Joined: 06 May 2017, 19:47

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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e30ernest wrote:
22 Jun 2021, 09:15
How long will that advantage last again? Does it apply for next year or this year?
Until the 1st of January 2022 I believe then it switches to the final 2021 season positions

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SiLo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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littlebigcat wrote:
22 Jun 2021, 09:53
e30ernest wrote:
22 Jun 2021, 09:15
How long will that advantage last again? Does it apply for next year or this year?
Until the 1st of January 2022 I believe then it switches to the final 2021 season positions
If this is true it could be a fairly big tactical play from them, but I somehow doubt it.
Felipe Baby!

seense
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Joined: 09 May 2019, 11:36

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 19:12
The most annoying thing right now is that the team has literally done almost nothing to the car!
I get the feeling something big is coming. According to Allison we still will find out about the tokens spent and bottas saying there is more to come in an interview.

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dans79
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Joined: 03 Mar 2013, 19:33
Location: USA

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littlebigcat wrote:
22 Jun 2021, 08:54
I'm not going to claim it is intentional, but likely as of Thursday next week Mercedes is about to get 2.5% extra wind tunnel time and CFD allowance and Red Bull is going to lose the same amount.
I didn't know about this, so i went searching and found it in the sporting regulations. While it does seem a little far fetched it might explain why the team doesn't seem that worried!

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -05-17.pdf
Image
197 104 103 7

e30ernest
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Joined: 29 Feb 2012, 08:47

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Speaking of...


littlebigcat
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Joined: 06 May 2017, 19:47

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
22 Jun 2021, 13:23
If this is true it could be a fairly big tactical play from them, but I somehow doubt it.
It's a completely made up conspiracy theory, but it does fill the hole in a narrative about why we haven't seen much from Mercedes beyond the bare minimum 2020 to 2021

mkay
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Joined: 21 May 2010, 21:30

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 20:50
pursue_one's wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 10:13
zibby43 wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 09:54


Upgrades rumored for Austria.
What’s the source of this?
I believe AMuS. It was during the run-up to French GP week, and they said no updates for Merc in France.

Austria has been a location for several large Merc upgrades in the past. If we don’t see one here, I just don’t realistically see how Merc can win on the basis of car performance.
No offense but you keep predicting upgrades for Merc at every other GP (though I understand it comes from journos). Also, post-race, apparently Toto told Sky Italia that there won’t be any aero upgrades on the car given the focus on 2022.

I will refuse to believe any ‘upgrade’ speculation until we see the car post-scrutineering or at FP1.

Very disappointing to say the least coming from Merc. I do wonder how RB is able to churn so many upgrades - are they somewhat sacrificing work on 2022?

You can argue it may not given RB has seemingly wrapped up the WCC (barring a massive dip in performance or reliability) and potentially the WDC as well, and that they know Merc won’t be bringing anything to their car. So best case, Merc gets a 1 or 2-month development advantage for 2022.

zibby43
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Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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mkay wrote:
23 Jun 2021, 00:39
zibby43 wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 20:50
pursue_one's wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 10:13


What’s the source of this?
I believe AMuS. It was during the run-up to French GP week, and they said no updates for Merc in France.

Austria has been a location for several large Merc upgrades in the past. If we don’t see one here, I just don’t realistically see how Merc can win on the basis of car performance.
No offense but you keep predicting upgrades for Merc at every other GP (though I understand it comes from journos). Also, post-race, apparently Toto told Sky Italia that there won’t be any aero upgrades on the car given the focus on 2022.

I will refuse to believe any ‘upgrade’ speculation until we see the car post-scrutineering or at FP1.

Very disappointing to say the least coming from Merc. I do wonder how RB is able to churn so many upgrades - are they somewhat sacrificing work on 2022?

You can argue it may not given RB has seemingly wrapped up the WCC (barring a massive dip in performance or reliability) and potentially the WDC as well, and that they know Merc won’t be bringing anything to their car. So best case, Merc gets a 1 or 2-month development advantage for 2022.
They're not my predictions, as you pointed out.

I'm still trying to figure out if it's really that disappointing for Merc, as they've managed to have a race car quick enough to win during every single weekend (despite you predicting that they would not, ahead of virtually every weekend), excluding Monaco.

What does that say? That the car has untapped potential, if only Merc could arrive in FP1 with a good baseline, instead of having to make drastic changes all weekend, all the way up to 10 minutes before Q1?

And to say that RB has the WCC wrapped up after 7 races is kind of comical. Merc have been 20 points down in the WCC to Ferrari much later in the season. Merc have already had 1 double non-points finish (by virtue of what happened in Baku), plus Bottas' crash in Imola.

b2bL44
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Joined: 21 Jan 2019, 02:46

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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seense wrote:
22 Jun 2021, 14:22
dans79 wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 19:12
The most annoying thing right now is that the team has literally done almost nothing to the car!
I get the feeling something big is coming. According to Allison we still will find out about the tokens spent and bottas saying there is more to come in an interview.
Source on the Bottas interview?
I like headbuttin’ journos an´ I can not lie.
You otha brothas can´t deny.
That when a journo walks in wit´ some bait an´
A hook right in yo´ face. You get SMACKED.

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