2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Honestly, I think If they hadn't pit Bottas for vibrations, The front 3 would have run as long as Perez did. The race would have been a clear 1 stopper then with a Merc 1-3.
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atanatizante
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:07 pm
Honestly, I think If they hadn't pit Bottas for vibrations, The front 3 would have run as long as Perez did. The race would have been a clear 1 stopper then with a Merc 1-3.
HAM said in the interview after the race had VER didn`t make a mistake in turn 1 he`d lead the race and thus won either way. And the reasons they were losing the race are at least two: firstly the higher DF setup they opted for and secondly the slow warmup phase on new tyres and most of all on the hard tyres ...

This particularly warming up issues now faces 2 problems: one it`s in qualy and the second one (more important) in both under and overcut situations in the race. I know they design the car with such a philosophy to be kind with tyres in order to get longer stints, which gives them the faster 1 stop race scenario, but they are losing too much ground ...

Then, when they opted for the higher DF setup they`ve shot in their foot coz even if they`re were quicker over one lap in qualy (as Toto said based on their simulations) and even in the race, finally, HAM couldn`t pass VER due to lacking top speed even with DRS on ...

As for RB running a low DF set up for the race that has to do with some upgrades they made in the last 2 races which were silently overlooked:
- at Monaco, they`ve got an upgrade at the rear suspension which both cured the rear tyres quickly degradation seen at Barcelona and most of all increased their mechanical grip, hence they were super strong in the third sector here at Ricard circuit and led them to opt for the lower DF set up in the race.
- at Baku, they`ve got a new fuel formula which is said to worth some 1 tenths over a lap and another 2 tenths were down to the low DF set up and add to what HAM said about they were losing some 3,5 tenths on the straights ...
- here at Paul Ricard, RB got a new Honda PU which got an upgrade due to some reliability reasons (since the first race at Bahrein they`ve run it slightly detuned and had reported to FIA about that). This new PU (in conjunction with the new fuel) is said to be able to run on a higher mode for a longer time, which give them some 0,5 tenths a lap, hence that 3,5 tenths HAM said they were losing on the straights ...

In a conclusion, I think it's useless to have the upper hand on race pace had you can't maximising it if you’re not leading the field!

On another note, what I don`t understand is the fact that for 2021 it`s allowed just one upgrade for fuel & lube and I`ve thought this was at the start of the season but it appears to be allowed just one upgrade over the entire year except for the upgrade which they started on the first race of the season ...

Does anybody hear about any fuel and lube upgrade coming from Petronas this year?
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restless
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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According to Tanabe, the new PU is exactly the same as first.
We have engine freeze for gods sake!
IF, there were upgrades due to reliability it would've been announced by FIA, and these reliability issues should been tested by rivals, Mercedes including.

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F1Krof
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I'm still baffled by the lack of upgrades. Honestly I think something went terrible wrong in the planning phase. This is even more bizarre when we now that last year they switch off to 21' the earliest of all teams. #-o :wtf: :roll: :?
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Fulcrum
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Another issue Mercedes have is Bottas hasn't finished in front of Verstappen once, and without a major shift in performance I don't see him doing so very often.

With Verstappen almost always being ahead of Perez, team orders in effect or otherwise, 2nd place is Verstappen's minimum likely outcome, meaning Hamilton practically has to win, or expect to concede points.

Past reliability would undermine Verstappen's chances, he averages 3 retirements per year over the past 3 years, but there have been few signs of instability in that regard thus far.

Hamilton typically performs more strongly in the 2nd half of the season relative to the first, but it might be a bridge too far this year if Mercedes don't produce some upgrades.

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Fulcrum wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:58 am
Another issue Mercedes have is Bottas hasn't finished in front of Verstappen once, and without a major shift in performance I don't see him doing so very often.

With Verstappen almost always being ahead of Perez, team orders in effect or otherwise, 2nd place is Verstappen's minimum likely outcome, meaning Hamilton practically has to win, or expect to concede points.

Past reliability would undermine Verstappen's chances, he averages 3 retirements per year over the past 3 years, but there have been few signs of instability in that regard thus far.

Hamilton typically performs more strongly in the 2nd half of the season relative to the first, but it might be a bridge too far this year if Mercedes don't produce some upgrades.
Still feel like they have something up their sleeves. It can't be that they just rock up without any updates. I'm still counting on a b-spec car after the Summer break or the true W12, not this W11 converted to match the 2021 regulation kind of thing.

Who knows they might not have turned the engines on at all and just saving them for later.

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Capharol
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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F1Krof wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:32 am
I'm still baffled by the lack of upgrades. Honestly I think something went terrible wrong in the planning phase. This is even more bizarre when we now that last year they switch off to 21' the earliest of all teams. #-o :wtf: :roll: :?
or Merc decided to try to get as far as possible with the old spec and put focus on the 2022 car already but isnt telling it.
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Fulcrum
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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WaikeCU wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:04 am
Fulcrum wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:58 am
Another issue Mercedes have is Bottas hasn't finished in front of Verstappen once, and without a major shift in performance I don't see him doing so very often.

With Verstappen almost always being ahead of Perez, team orders in effect or otherwise, 2nd place is Verstappen's minimum likely outcome, meaning Hamilton practically has to win, or expect to concede points.

Past reliability would undermine Verstappen's chances, he averages 3 retirements per year over the past 3 years, but there have been few signs of instability in that regard thus far.

Hamilton typically performs more strongly in the 2nd half of the season relative to the first, but it might be a bridge too far this year if Mercedes don't produce some upgrades.
Still feel like they have something up their sleeves. It can't be that they just rock up without any updates. I'm still counting on a b-spec car after the Summer break or the true W12, not this W11 converted to match the 2021 regulation kind of thing.

Who knows they might not have turned the engines on at all and just saving them for later.
Well, they certainly need something. They will win neither the 2021 WCC or WDC if the car receives no development.

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F1Krof
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Capharol wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:11 am
F1Krof wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:32 am
I'm still baffled by the lack of upgrades. Honestly I think something went terrible wrong in the planning phase. This is even more bizarre when we now that last year they switch off to 21' the earliest of all teams. #-o :wtf: :roll: :?
or Merc decided to try to get as far as possible with the old spec and put focus on the 2022 car already but isnt telling it.
Rules permitted starting development on 22's car before 1st of January 2021.
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atanatizante
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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WaikeCU wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:04 am
Fulcrum wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:58 am
Another issue Mercedes have is Bottas hasn't finished in front of Verstappen once, and without a major shift in performance I don't see him doing so very often.

With Verstappen almost always being ahead of Perez, team orders in effect or otherwise, 2nd place is Verstappen's minimum likely outcome, meaning Hamilton practically has to win, or expect to concede points.

Past reliability would undermine Verstappen's chances, he averages 3 retirements per year over the past 3 years, but there have been few signs of instability in that regard thus far.

Hamilton typically performs more strongly in the 2nd half of the season relative to the first, but it might be a bridge too far this year if Mercedes don't produce some upgrades.
Still feel like they have something up their sleeves. It can't be that they just rock up without any updates. I'm still counting on a b-spec car after the Summer break or the true W12, not this W11 converted to match the 2021 regulation kind of thing.

Who knows they might not have turned the engines on at all and just saving them for later.
Some said that due to cost cap restrictions they are doing the efficient development that Racing Point was doing in the past, when they analyse all the teams' developments and after the summer break, they come with an almost b-spec car slashing the midfield opposition ...
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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atanatizante wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:18 am
WaikeCU wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:04 am
Fulcrum wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:58 am
Another issue Mercedes have is Bottas hasn't finished in front of Verstappen once, and without a major shift in performance I don't see him doing so very often.

With Verstappen almost always being ahead of Perez, team orders in effect or otherwise, 2nd place is Verstappen's minimum likely outcome, meaning Hamilton practically has to win, or expect to concede points.

Past reliability would undermine Verstappen's chances, he averages 3 retirements per year over the past 3 years, but there have been few signs of instability in that regard thus far.

Hamilton typically performs more strongly in the 2nd half of the season relative to the first, but it might be a bridge too far this year if Mercedes don't produce some upgrades.
Still feel like they have something up their sleeves. It can't be that they just rock up without any updates. I'm still counting on a b-spec car after the Summer break or the true W12, not this W11 converted to match the 2021 regulation kind of thing.

Who knows they might not have turned the engines on at all and just saving them for later.
Some said that due to cost cap restrictions they are doing the efficient development that Racing Point was doing in the past, when they analyse all the teams' developments and after the summer break, they come with an almost b-spec car slashing the midfield opposition ...
Seems a bit like wishful thinking to me! I think they've taken the calculated risk of not winning this year, vs the probability of producing the best possible car next year and being strong for the following few.

You also have to factor in that these 2021 regs are just less compatible with what they had to work with carried over from last year than other teams and there actually isn't much they can do.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Not winning? Merc should have won last race and then Hamilton would have already been back at P1 WDC.
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atanatizante
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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restless wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:39 am
According to Tanabe, the new PU is exactly the same as first.
We have engine freeze for gods sake!
IF, there were upgrades due to reliability it would've been announced by FIA, and these reliability issues should been tested by rivals, Mercedes including.

maybe this source (from 46:10 min.) has better info, don`t you think?


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atanatizante
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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In FP1 the Merc`s F1 simulator driver Anthony Davidson said on Sky that had a team that wouldn`t start the next season with a good car it will hurt them for the further 5 years! And that`s for me sums up about what updates will gonna see this year on W12 car ...
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Marty_Y
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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