2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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atanatizante
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:05 pm

...

If You have a good race pace and tire deg, you are going to pass anyone in front of you that doesn't!
I think they`ll have a tough decision between top speed vs efficient DF, bearing in mind they`ll run behind an RB car in the first part of the race (at least) and most likely with the help of the DRS ...

But I agree with you that tyre deg will have here a bigger influence rather than top speed or race pace and if I were Merc I would be focusing entirely on race pace having a 2 stop strategy, due to 2 factors: one is the high chance of an SC phase and the second reason is the fact that running in free air could unleash the true race pace they have, something they couldn`t do it in France ...

And speaking about a 2 stop strategy, what do you think it`s the best choice: S-M-M, S-H-M or even an S-H-S one?
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atanatizante
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:08 pm

...

It's a power track and Mercedes no longer have a straight-line advantage so any passing will rely on who has a significant tyre advantage. And going by the trend of things Mercedes will start the race behind Redbull (Max at least) so that makes things even more reliant on tyre management.
THIS!
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Pyrone89
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Told you, the W12 is still fastest. Just sometimes it is a diva, but once it behaves it is clearly fastest.
True GOATs don’t need the help of superior material to win.

Tom Brady, Usain Bolt are true GOATs.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:58 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:37 am
sn809 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:45 am
Merc are suffering because their car does are designed to be leading and need clear air, they don't not have the ability to follow other cars close.
The Merc’s following ability this year is arguably the best it has ever been in the hybrid era.

Hamilton was within 1s of Verstappen in France and could stay tucked up there for several laps. They’ve also had zero PU cooling issues this season when following.
Exactly. They are suffering because either they’ve made a decision not to upgrade the 2021 car- in favour of the strongest car for 2022- and hang their chances on whether what they’ve got enough with what they already have (looks like not) OR they are just down a development dead end, given what they can achieve in terms of gain with the 2021 regs and development constraints.

It’s probably better to focus on 2022 and the long game rather than throw time and energy into what might be an unwinnable short term battle.
Agree wholeheartedly. The lack of upgrades have clearly cost them so far.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:04 pm
Told you, the W12 is still fastest. Just sometimes it is a diva, but once it behaves it is clearly fastest.
It was easily just beaten by the RBR in every qualifying session. The RB is now better in the corners, straights, and every other metric by which you evaluate car performance.

lh13
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Drivers (not)performing made the difference today along with car performance. Bottas thinks there was a bit more time in there, and Lewis was struggling. It could have been closer than it already is if Lewis was up for it.

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Pyrone89
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:26 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:04 pm
Told you, the W12 is still fastest. Just sometimes it is a diva, but once it behaves it is clearly fastest.
It was easily just beaten by the RBR in every qualifying session. The RB is now better in the corners, straights, and every other metric by which you evaluate car performance.
Both Merc drivers still faster than second RB driver. And we have seen in France race how big a difference there is between quali pace order and race pace order (Mercs hounding VER for laps easily in 0.7 behind for laps).

You can also just admit VER is outperforming both Merc drivers in skill this year.
True GOATs don’t need the help of superior material to win.

Tom Brady, Usain Bolt are true GOATs.

pursue_one's
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Mercedes have not brought a single update since Imola.
What are the chances of bringing updates in next week?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:04 pm
Told you, the W12 is still fastest. Just sometimes it is a diva, but once it behaves it is clearly fastest.
Get outa heea! as they would say in New York. Come on man. It's getting out of hand at this point. Not sure what a redbull man is trying to prove "reassuring" the Mercedes hopeful the the car is the "fastest" when it hasn't even sniffed pole since six-seven races ago? Just "sometimes" its a diva? It's clear we have no updates and the car has to run a barn-door rear wing to keep competitive. Even today was big gamble to change set-ups. We aren't idiots. We know the car is lacking a whole bunch.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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lh13 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:41 pm
Drivers (not)performing made the difference today along with car performance. Bottas thinks there was a bit more time in there, and Lewis was struggling. It could have been closer than it already is if Lewis was up for it.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Did you see the traces? and on boards? The barn-door wing gave Merc a little chance in the corners but coming out... it only so much you can step on the throttle before the rear slides. Watch the two on-baords between the cars. Merc don't have the balance. No way two tenths could be found. Even Horner said the track came towards RedBull and he was confident in getting pole.
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Pyrone89
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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You clearly seemed to have missed my post about race pace and both Mercs beating the second RB drivers. The W12 is not slower in the race, in fact in the last race it was faster. RB won due to better strategy. With regards to this quali: Max was simply on it today.

And before you get depressed: in 1 race time there will be new Pirelli tyres. Could turn everything on its head. Remember 2013.
True GOATs don’t need the help of superior material to win.

Tom Brady, Usain Bolt are true GOATs.

lh13
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:49 pm
lh13 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:41 pm
Drivers (not)performing made the difference today along with car performance. Bottas thinks there was a bit more time in there, and Lewis was struggling. It could have been closer than it already is if Lewis was up for it.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Did you see the traces? and on boards? The barn-door wing gave Merc a little chance in the corners but coming out... it only so much you can step on the throttle before the rear slides. Watch the two on-baords between the cars. Merc don't have the balance. No way two tenths could be found. Even Horner said the track came towards RedBull and he was confident in getting pole.
Like I said, along with car performance.

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:56 pm
You clearly seemed to have missed my post about race pace and both Mercs beating the second RB drivers. The W12 is not slower in the race, in fact in the last race it was faster. RB won due to better strategy. With regards to this quali: Max was simply on it today.

And before you get depressed: in 1 race time there will be new Pirelli tyres. Could turn everything on its head. Remember 2013.
Haha, or it could really help RBR. After all the new spec is to avoid a failure that happened to RBR and Merc are kinder on their tyres. It could actually hurt Merc even more.
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Pyrone89
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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adrianjordan wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:04 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:56 pm
You clearly seemed to have missed my post about race pace and both Mercs beating the second RB drivers. The W12 is not slower in the race, in fact in the last race it was faster. RB won due to better strategy. With regards to this quali: Max was simply on it today.

And before you get depressed: in 1 race time there will be new Pirelli tyres. Could turn everything on its head. Remember 2013.
Haha, or it could really help RBR. After all the new spec is to avoid a failure that happened to RBR and Merc are kinder on their tyres. It could actually hurt Merc even more.
Harder/stronger tyres seem to help Mercedes this and all seasons since 2014
True GOATs don’t need the help of superior material to win.

Tom Brady, Usain Bolt are true GOATs.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:58 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:37 am
sn809 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:45 am
Merc are suffering because their car does are designed to be leading and need clear air, they don't not have the ability to follow other cars close.
The Merc’s following ability this year is arguably the best it has ever been in the hybrid era.

Hamilton was within 1s of Verstappen in France and could stay tucked up there for several laps. They’ve also had zero PU cooling issues this season when following.
Exactly. They are suffering because either they’ve made a decision not to upgrade the 2021 car- in favour of the strongest car for 2022- and hang their chances on whether what they’ve got enough with what they already have (looks like not) OR they are just down a development dead end, given what they can achieve in terms of gain with the 2021 regs and development constraints.

It’s probably better to focus on 2022 and the long game rather than throw time and energy into what might be an unwinnable short term battle.
But the short term battle is right here in front of them and is very winnable imo. They could have won any of the races they've lost to Redbull so far. It's a close battle. It's quite perplexing to me if they truly are giving up on this year's challenge. And if that is the case, Redbull will pull away because they will not stop development. I'm not saying don't think about next year, but if you're throwing all your eggs at 2022, that is the wrong way to do it imo. There are no guarantees next year and they cannot be cocky enough to think that they are the ones that will get it right.