2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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mkay
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Basically, this disproves the theory that Lewis was happily sitting behind LEC. They just didn't really have the pace on the C2 due to overheating (presumably caused by the very, very hot temps for Silverstone). There's probably an element of LEC pushing harder to stay ahead (as Allison alluded to fuel saving in the second stint, but that may also be explained by that mapping issue Ferrari had).

Pleased they were able to really lean on the C1, but they will be in trouble in Hungary if they are unable to keep tyres in the window especially with softer tyres and warmer temps.

Also, Allison's comment on upgrades is clear that whatever will come at Zandvoort will be extremely minor. If it took Merc 4 months to come up with a few aero bits sprinkled around the middle of the car, I don't expect anything big then.

ab_f1
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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mkay wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:08 pm
Basically, this disproves the theory that Lewis was happily sitting behind LEC. They just didn't really have the pace on the C2 due to overheating (presumably caused by the very, very hot temps for Silverstone).
On Peter Windsor video about British GP, he made this point about Mercedes performance relatively poor on high fuel with Medium tyres as compared to my belief at that time the Lec had much better performance. That was interesting.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Morteza wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:13 pm
https://youtu.be/MTcooWGvHHY
Thanks for that.

I'm convinced by the level of wing we can run now. Really chuffed by that. On the other hand it seemed our ability to follow closely has reduced somewhat. Hungary should give some insight.

So by the letter of the rules in the Stewarding documents there is no obligation to cede the corner or hit the Apex. Not that I didn't beleive so myself but it's good to hear that it is in an official document. Seems the penalty was more to help the race so to speek.
.. ... ... ... ...

cooken
cooken
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:16 pm
Morteza wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:13 pm
https://youtu.be/MTcooWGvHHY
Thanks for that.

I'm convinced by the level of wing we can run now. Really chuffed by that. On the other hand it seemed our ability to follow closely has reduced somewhat. Hungary should give some insight.

So by the letter of the rules in the Stewarding documents there is no obligation to cede the corner or hit the Apex. Not that I didn't beleive so myself but it's good to hear that it is in an official document. Seems the penalty was more to help the race so to speek.
Not sure it really impacted the ability to follow either. Allison said in the first stint the car was overheating, could have been also a tyre specific issue. On the hards it seemed he could follow and close up quite well.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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cooken wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:41 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:16 pm
Morteza wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:13 pm
https://youtu.be/MTcooWGvHHY
Thanks for that.

I'm convinced by the level of wing we can run now. Really chuffed by that. On the other hand it seemed our ability to follow closely has reduced somewhat. Hungary should give some insight.

So by the letter of the rules in the Stewarding documents there is no obligation to cede the corner or hit the Apex. Not that I didn't beleive so myself but it's good to hear that it is in an official document. Seems the penalty was more to help the race so to speek.
Not sure it really impacted the ability to follow either. Allison said in the first stint the car was overheating, could have been also a tyre specific issue. On the hards it seemed he could follow and close up quite well.
I think he was referring to the medium tires overheating. Both on Saturday and Sunday they blistered quite fast.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:20 pm
cooken wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:41 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:16 pm


Thanks for that.

I'm convinced by the level of wing we can run now. Really chuffed by that. On the other hand it seemed our ability to follow closely has reduced somewhat. Hungary should give some insight.

So by the letter of the rules in the Stewarding documents there is no obligation to cede the corner or hit the Apex. Not that I didn't beleive so myself but it's good to hear that it is in an official document. Seems the penalty was more to help the race so to speek.
Not sure it really impacted the ability to follow either. Allison said in the first stint the car was overheating, could have been also a tyre specific issue. On the hards it seemed he could follow and close up quite well.
I think he was referring to the medium tires overheating. Both on Saturday and Sunday they blistered quite fast.
Yes. It appears Merc have really made a step with PU cooling this year. We have heard very few (if any) radio messages about cooling. The W12’s ability to follow quite closely this year also seems to confirm that improvement.

I believe it was the W11 launch spec that had somewhat crude-looking holes cut out under the side pod inlets for additional ERS cooling. They were seemingly marginal everywhere re: cooling the past few years.

cooken
cooken
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:20 pm
cooken wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:41 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:16 pm


Thanks for that.

I'm convinced by the level of wing we can run now. Really chuffed by that. On the other hand it seemed our ability to follow closely has reduced somewhat. Hungary should give some insight.

So by the letter of the rules in the Stewarding documents there is no obligation to cede the corner or hit the Apex. Not that I didn't beleive so myself but it's good to hear that it is in an official document. Seems the penalty was more to help the race so to speek.
Not sure it really impacted the ability to follow either. Allison said in the first stint the car was overheating, could have been also a tyre specific issue. On the hards it seemed he could follow and close up quite well.
I think he was referring to the medium tires overheating. Both on Saturday and Sunday they blistered quite fast.
Yea I wondered about that too. At around 18:20 he says "the car had overheated on them" referring to mediums which is a bit of an odd statement. On first listen I just heard "car overheated". Given the context though and his next statement about the hards, he probably meant the car was overheating the tire.

Could've been brakes though too given the fuel load and high track temp, which is then linked closely to tire temp.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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cooken wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:23 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:20 pm
cooken wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:41 pm


Not sure it really impacted the ability to follow either. Allison said in the first stint the car was overheating, could have been also a tyre specific issue. On the hards it seemed he could follow and close up quite well.
I think he was referring to the medium tires overheating. Both on Saturday and Sunday they blistered quite fast.
Yea I wondered about that too. At around 18:20 he says "the car had overheated on them" referring to mediums which is a bit of an odd statement. On first listen I just heard "car overheated". Given the context though and his next statement about the hards, he probably meant the car was overheating the tire.

Could've been brakes though too given the fuel load and high track temp, which is then linked closely to tire temp.
of course, the car is designed and set up in such a way that it's always on the edge of overheating. Bit more weight could tip several components over the edge indeed.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Does anyone have any documentation about these so called FIA guidelines for overtaking? Surely the fans should have access so we can understand why some decisions are made the way they are.
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RZS10
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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They say it's an internal document in that video, the only available information was this: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29890&p=987320#p987320 .
There's also this article https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... s/6634384/ , motorsport-total is part of the motorsport network so i guess they just put together their own image based on the motorsport-total piece.

EDIT: According to MST this most likely was not a current document but was given to Mercedes by Whiting in 2015 and since Merc was never given any contradicting information they believed it was still the basis for the stewards' decisions today, Masi was supposedly not aware of that particular document and there's no info about the current guidelines. It is a bit surprising though that RedBull never said "they argued with an old document so it all remains a bit mysterious.
Last edited by RZS10 on Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mclaren_mircea
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite ... d=50834319
According to multiple sources Mercedes will have just electric engines from the next decade. I thought that the plug in hybrid still have a future. I love this team, and it scares me that they could retire after 2025. What do you think? Cand that have consequences for the F1 team? I thought that bio fuel and zero emissions togethar that it is a marketing platform for Daimler secures the futur eof the team in the long term. They are not Honda. They are here from 1995 at some form and they have a factory team that was set up an the high of the financial crisis in 2009. They did not run out. I think they will be here to fight the Red Bulls on the long term.

Jolle
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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mclaren_mircea wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:54 am
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite ... d=50834319
According to multiple sources Mercedes will have just electric engines from the next decade. I thought that the plug in hybrid still have a future. I love this team, and it scares me that they could retire after 2025. What do you think? Cand that have consequences for the F1 team? I thought that bio fuel and zero emissions togethar that it is a marketing platform for Daimler secures the futur eof the team in the long term. They are not Honda. They are here from 1995 at some form and they have a factory team that was set up an the high of the financial crisis in 2009. They did not run out. I think they will be here to fight the Red Bulls on the long term.
Renault has the same kind of pledge, Fiat probably as well.

One of the reasons they are racing under the AMG, Alpine and Ferrari name.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:06 am
mclaren_mircea wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:54 am
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite ... d=50834319
According to multiple sources Mercedes will have just electric engines from the next decade. I thought that the plug in hybrid still have a future. I love this team, and it scares me that they could retire after 2025. What do you think? Cand that have consequences for the F1 team? I thought that bio fuel and zero emissions togethar that it is a marketing platform for Daimler secures the futur eof the team in the long term. They are not Honda. They are here from 1995 at some form and they have a factory team that was set up an the high of the financial crisis in 2009. They did not run out. I think they will be here to fight the Red Bulls on the long term.
Renault has the same kind of pledge, Fiat probably as well.

One of the reasons they are racing under the AMG, Alpine and Ferrari name.
It was mentioned over the weekend (but I'm sure is common knowledge on here anyway) that they are targeting biofuel for F1 in the near future, so I'm sure all the R+D going into that will shape some sort of sustainable future for conventional(ish) engines for road cars in the future.

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I know that the other caremaker have the same will. But the new info is that their strategy will switch from ELECTRICITY FIRST to ELECTRICITY ONLY. I dont know where the plug in hybrids and ethanol/hydrogen have space here. Or the fact that that they wont want to be associated with any form of a combustion engine. My biggest hope is that they will remain if the F1 is a tremendous marketing platform that will continue to generate value for Daimler. But for this they will have to keep winning championships. They will have to keep dominating and even if the F1 viewers will fall everyone will asociate Mercedes with excellence and ,,only winning mater,, mentality. It is very important to have a dominant car next year from where they can build and refine for the next 4 years. But I dont know if it will be the case with Red Bul/Newey/Max. They are a tremendous formula now and if someone can find a silverbullet next year it is surely Newey.
Last edited by mclaren_mircea on Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.